Agree with you totally Becky that we bond with animals very easily, they can tell how you are feeling and you can tell sometimes how they are feeling, when I have been ill my dog has just sat beside me looking at me and waited for me to get up, they become a member of the family and like Becky said they aren't replaceable, every dog is unique and you will never find one like the last or first dog you had, every animal is unique!!

I thnk the problem is that some people on this forum are 'brutallly' honest (I think you know who I mean ) and don't hesitate to give their opinion on something or somebody, obviously that doesn't win them any friends.

Perhaps, if we think that people should keep the death of their pet to themselves, maybe we should keep our nasty opinions and jibes to ourselves too, or at least PM only.

Quote from 5haz :

Perhaps, if we think that people should keep the death of their pet to themselves, maybe we should keep our nasty opinions and jibes to ourselves too, or at least PM only.

There, nail on the head.

To the people who are saying how you can't replace an animal, you're looking at it wrong. If your pet dog, cat, fish, worm, budge, [insert pet name here] dies, you'll be sad for a while (I know I was when my first dog died), but then if you want to fill the void in your life you can pop down to the pet store (or Jerry Greens in my case, as I prefer to give a rescued dog a second chance) and pick up another, which I did.

When a human dies, grand parent, parent, sibling, friend, you can't just pop down to the store and pick up a new one to replace that void. Look at crazy cat lady (or Becky as you might know her), one of her cats died, so she got a new one. I'd love to see anyone who lost a pet to suggest that to someone who lost say a real child. One of my mothers friends at uni was the crazy budge lady (never had children only budges) and when my brother died she tried to compare losing a budge to losing a son. Naturally it didn't go down well.

Some things are just not on the same scale and no matter how fond of a bond you create with your pets, it is not the same as losing a human.

Quote :

you're looking at it wrong.

The guy is 13 years old. His dog died. Give him a break.

Quote from Electrik Kar :

The guy is 13 years old. His dog died. Give him a break.

I wasn't aiming it at him. It is the people in this thread.

don't try to tell people how should they think, people think differently.

*sigh*

Quote from JJ72 :

don't try to tell people how should they think

But you just did! How come you are allowed to tell people how they should think, but everyone else isn't?

Quote :

When a human dies, grand parent, parent, sibling, friend, you can't just pop down to the store and pick up a new one to replace that void. Look at crazy cat lady (or Becky as you might know her), one of her cats died, so she got a new one. I'd love to see anyone who lost a pet to suggest that to someone who lost say a real child. One of my mothers friends at uni was the crazy budge lady (never had children only budges) and when my brother died she tried to compare losing a budge to losing a son. Naturally it didn't go down well.

No pets are not replaceable, I still miss my first cat. Yes I have others, but i'll always miss Freddie. Having now got 2 cats since doesnt replace him at all. I'm not going to argue that loosing a pet is the same as loosing a child, although it can sure as hell feel like it at first, but certainly I havn't 'replaced' my first cat.

Quote :

When a human dies, grand parent, parent, sibling, friend, you can't just pop down to the store and pick up a new one to replace that void

By your logic yes you can: If you lost your son you could have another kid right? Or if you lost a parent you could bond with an aunt or uncle? Sounds harsh when you look at it like that doesnt it, and i'm not suggesteing that is the way of things - quite the opposite infact, I think your analogy is a bad one.

Like I said earlier grief is grief, it's a real thing whether you miss your mum, your kid, or your pet. If you have bonded to a creature who returns that bond, then your going to miss it when that bond is severed by death. That is the very definition of grief, pet or otherwise.

How we deal with that grief is any way we can, for some of us it's a deeply personal thing, for others we feel the need to express ourselves like wearing a black arm band or tie. Some of us need to talk about it, we're all different and we all deal with strong emotions differently.

Grief is a horrible emotion to have to endure, and the debate - less we forget the point - is over whether somebody is justified in having grief over the loss of a pet. Well what right have we got to make it a debate in the first place to impose whether somebody else is allowed to feel and express their grief?

There where posts of grief and condolance the forum-world over after 9/11, yet few people involved felt that grief as personally as somebody loosing their pet. So tell me, what gives us the right to determine whether somebody can feel and express their grief?

The thread was a black arm band, so how about showing the respect you would show anybody wearing one out in the real world? Or does the fact that this is an internet forum allow you the right to act like a sociopath?

Time for the Bladey words of wisdom....
What a lot of you fail to realise, (based on the fact that nobody has mentioned it so far) is that for SOME unfortunate people, the interwebs is the ONLY social life they know, I am not pointing the finger at anybody here, just stating a fact.
There are people around whose sole life revolves around their online buddies, maybe they are bullied at school, or live miles from civilisation, but have no real friends with whom to interact.
When they suffer a loss (or have some important news of any kind) they feel they have to share it with the only friends they have...the guys on the forum!
To blatantly take the piss out of a 13 year old because he has QUOTE..lost his only friend /QUOTE is getting below the level of acceptable human behaviour...
OK, maybe the forums are not exactly the best place to post such things, but dont forget...he may have no other method of releasing his emotions.

I agree with Bladey, that ripping the piss out of a grieving 13 year old is hardly mature, and is bang out of order. If you want to complain about RIP threads, wait until that one has blown over. But I also agree with Tristan, that this forum isn't the best place to grieve. Partly because the fact is (I'm not trying to be disrespectful to the poor lad here) nobody here has ever seen the dog, and loved it like Jordan, so really, nobody cares...

I do empathise with Jordan though, I know what it feels like to lose a good friend.

Quote from Becky Rose :

[snip]

Just no, I can't even be bothered to break this into little sections, there is not one person in the world who wouldn't want to punch you in the neck if you compared the loss of a pet to the loss of their child. Lets pick almost at random this site full of grieving parents, I doubt any of them will think "awe, she knows how grief because she lost her cat."

And for the record I have never posted RIP [persons name here] in my life, or given a fake sense of care about someone I don't know announcing that someone they know died, not even after 9/11.

I know its not right to start topics about people, but RidersMotion is the biggest twat ever in all fairness, last year he was taking the mess out of cancer and such other things, telling em my nan should die of cancer. What a prick.

RIP Equinox friend.

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

Just no, I can't even be bothered to break this into little sections, there is not one person in the world who wouldn't want to punch you in the neck if you compared the loss of a pet to the loss of their child. Lets pick almost at random this site full of grieving parents, I doubt any of them will think "awe, she knows how grief because she lost her cat."

And for the record I have never posted RIP [persons name here] in my life, or given a fake sense of care about someone I don't know announcing that someone they know died, not even after 9/11.

Let me get this straight, you want to punch me in the throat - a move which I may need to remind you can dislodge the windpipe and cause a painful death last a few minutes - because I said:

• People handle grief differently, some people need to express it.
  
• I asked if we had the right to adjudicate whether we have the right to decide whether somebody is allowed to express their grief
  
• You cant just replace a pet with another one, every animal is unique.
  
• It can feel like the loss of a child at first, when a pet dies.
  

As I mentioned I have had my share of grief, I even know all too well how a throat punch can kill a person, I havnt felt the need to express my grief.

I'll defend the kids right to grieve, and i'll defend it on principle. I dont much like the threat of death from somebody on an internet forum, but I find it difficult to take your threat seriously.

Maybe there is a childhood trauma you need to post about?

Quote :

And for the record I have never posted RIP [persons name here] in my life, or given a fake sense of care about someone I don't know announcing that someone they know died, not even after 9/11.

There's nothing wrong with exercising a bit of empathy when it's required. Jordon wasn't looking for stoical words of wisdom, a comparitive perspective on grief or to be told that no-one cares about his dog or his problems. It doesn't matter that we don't know the dog. It matters that we can empathise.

Empathy fail

Quote from Becky Rose :

Let me get this straight, you want to punch me in the throat - a move which I may need to remind you can dislodge the windpipe and cause a painful death last a few minutes - because I said:

Then a punch in the feet, whatever, the point still stands, it isn't a comparison you ever make.

Quote from Becky Rose :

• It can feel like the loss of a child at first, when a pet dies.
  

This is the part I object to, the rest are all fair points I wont disagree with them, I will bet my left nut if I asked any of the people I know who lost a child if it is anything like losing a pet none of them will say yes. It can hurt a lot to lose a pet, but ask around, I can't picture any parent saying "oh yeah, when Fluffy died it was when like I lost a child" it is like saying "wow, both arms and legs blown off, huh? Yeah, I know how you feel, I broke a finger nail this morning."

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

Then a punch in the feet, whatever, the point still stands, it isn't a comparison you ever make.

OK so your still wishing violence on me just not death, nice to know, and i'll bear it in mind.

Quote :

This is the part I object to

The key words in what I said was "at first", that's because grief is grief no matter which way you look at it. The accessibility of an internet forum means the RIP thread in question was likely posted very soon whilst everything was very raw, and raw grief - no matter what the cause of the loss - is raw grief.

Its all subjective, this might shock you, but some people care more about their pets than other people care about their children. Picture for example someone who has recently had a loss and the only thing they had to remind them of the person they lost was the pet they gave them as a present, they would probably care for that pet more than half the bloody chav mothers you get around my area care about their children.

Okay, so perhaps mentioning my dislike for RIP threads in one wasn't in the best taste, but this week I have seen 6 RIP [person here] threads, most are "a guy I went to school with and only ever saw once never really talked to died today RIP That Guy" then streams of "RIP That Guy" comments cropped up.

They are the worst threads in the world for people stuck up their own arse to go into and say "RIP That Guy" because that means they care. Does it crock, very few people would really care.

The "at first" addition makes no difference, just using cases I know, when my brother died my mum stop functioning and my dad stopped talking for weeks, when our dogs died they took us all out for day trips and/or a Chinese meal.

When my oldest sister had a miscarriage she broke down and I bet if I asked her if it was anything like she felt at first when her rabbit died she'd smack me up side the head.

Both my next door neighbours lost children, a few women at the farm I work at lost some and again I bet none of them would agree that at first losing a pet is like losing a child. In fact I'd say you should ask someone you know who lost a child and a pet if losing the pet at first was like losing the child, although I can't say it'll end well.

Learn to read, seriously.

EDIT: Perhaps I should add to that incase this is the only post you do read properly. Love is subjective, someone may love their pet more than another person loves their child, you can't start to compare things like that because they are unique to each person.

Part of the problem in ever reaching a concensus Psychoman, is that people who dont have children tend to bond to their pets much closer than those who do, that's just the way of things. The pet itself can also make a difference, I mean, rabbits are pretty dosile and utterly thick and you have to really know them to spot personality traits. Cats and dogs which return love to you are a bit different.

I'm not going to get involved in waving stories of death around, I dont want too, i'm just going to repeat what I said before - and no it's not an "addition", this is what I said originally: "I'm not going to argue that loosing a pet is the same as loosing a child, although it can sure as hell feel like it at first".

I'm not quite sure this statement warrants the discussion we are having. I think you've personalised it too much. And if we're going to get into personal tales of death then we're going to be very morbid within a few posts.

You've swept aside Jordan's personal RIP thread and grouped it with the likes of "RIP Colin McRae" whome nobody here, to my knowledge, knew. That's not really fair on Jordan.

Like I said I keep most of my grief personal, i'm not going to get into a tit for tat tale of stuff i've been through and people i've seen die. Many of you know some of my background, so can probably guess i've got some stuff that isnt pretty in my past. That's all I have to say on the matter, so i'm not going to comment on the stories you've raised.

I'm just saying that you've made me compromise my original statement, and I didnt want to do that - but the way I see it, the loss of a pet can be extremely traumatic when everything is raw, and that's all there is too it. I think most people would get over the loss of a pet easier than the loss of a child, but I dont think the intensity of grief is any different until the healing has started. That's all i've said, and I dont think i'm wrong in that and bringing up your personal baggage isn't making me change my mind.

1 in 4 are said to be psychos, dont give a dam about others feelings, this is the 1st place i see makes me think that might be true

as for friendship being a fake over the internet just look at me, made plenty of good friends and bad enemies from whom i got tangible things like an s2 licence from the 1st and bad feelings from the 2nds

Quote from lerts :

1 in 4 are said to be psychos, dont give a dam about others feelings, this is the 1st place i see makes me think that might be true

That's suprisingly inciteful from a guy with a very tentative grip on reality , it's a view I agree with. I agree because I feel that the sense of detachment and untraceability / unaccountability of an internet community encourages people to behave in a more sociopathic way than they would out in the real world. It's important to remember to be yourself sometimes, we're not roleplaying when we make a post, we are who we are.

Quote from wheel4hummer :

But you just did! How come you are allowed to tell people how they should think, but everyone else isn't?

I am not telling him how should think, I am telling him how he shouldn't act.

Quote from JJ72 :

I am not telling him how should think, I am telling him how he shouldn't act.

Who are you to tell someone how they should act?