Quote from bbman :

Ah, so the physics are different when playing online? He says that his primary interests in iRacing are the physics, so if they don't change online, then his points are completely valid...

Btw, I find it very ironic that someone has to defend oneself on the LfS-forum for cancelling the iRacing subscription... What next, attack me for daring not to jump the bandwagon yet?

I'm not attacking him, it's just that online play adds a new depth to the game, and it's a bit that he has freely admited not trying. I accept his descion, and to a large extent I agree with it.

It would be like reviewing a film, by only watching the first 10mins.

Quote from Nick A :

I think I'd really like the Skip Barbers so if I went for the full year I'd probably use the credit to get the Skippy and the 2 tracks needed for the season. I've read mixed things about the Skippy though, although mainly positive.

Well, as you've propably read, Skippy is very much like a GPL car. Low on ponies and has tendency to slide around due to low DF. I'm not a big fan of the car itself and my sight is set on Radical already, but there's no denying that car like Skippy provides hell of a racing. Because it doesn't rely so much on DF, there's lots of passing and close fighting going on. Just finished a race where we had 3 very skilled drivers and me battling for 2nd position and places were swapped back and forth.

It's quite amazing to see how much people are improving and you're really fighting for positions, not just waiting for the guys to crash or spin out. At the same time it's really rewarding to notice how your racecraft gets better aswell, couple weeks ago bumper-to-bumper and side-by-side situations kept making me nervous and crash out but now I'm getting more confident.

Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

It would be like reviewing a film, by only watching the first 10mins.

You don't? Tell me you sit through a whole film that you see in the first 10 minutes it won't really interest you - especially if you've got other things to attend to...

Quote from bbman :

You don't? Tell me you sit through a whole film that you see in the first 10 minutes it won't really interest you - especially if you've got other things to attend to...

Arguing the analogy doesn't really win you the discussion.

I bet I can tell you why Tristan never went online: Because there was never a ****ing race scheduled on each occasion he felt like going online.

I know that was the main reason I only managed two half-races or whatever it was in the whole month I had it. If you do anything else outside of playing computer games in your spare time it's just not worth the money.

There was a discussion in the iR Forums about how the developers interact with the community and implement/change things the members ask for, and one of the iR devs Grant Reeve seems to be a LFS Fan...

"Don't forget the LFS guys - if there was ever a sim written purely for the community then that is it. Who else would ever bother implementing an autocross mode? (I'm an autocrosser - huge kudos from me for that)."

Quote from bbman :

You don't? Tell me you sit through a whole film that you see in the first 10 minutes it won't really interest you - especially if you've got other things to attend to...

1. Many films I have gone on to enjoy, have started poorly in the first 10 mins. If I switched off everything that does'nt grab me straight away, I would have a very shallow range of intrests
   
2. I dont watch a film knowing that in 20/30 mins i have soemthing to do, likewise I dont set myself up for a race knowing i have something to do 20/30 mins latter on
   

I understand why people are canceling subscriptions, heck i was almost one of them also, but I enjoy, and since I'm now without g/f I have some spare time to waste away.

Quote from Jertje :

Arguing the analogy doesn't really win you the discussion.

There is a discussion? I seem to have missed that between all the shouting that testing physics offline is just 10 minutes of a film where someone buys a powerdrill to have it lying around...

Quote from Quint999 :

sigh here comes the fanbois to ruin a perfectly pleasant thread, a little bravado because chief ego has cancelled his subscription

If you just knew how far off you are... Go on, keep digging your hole...

Quote from bbman :

There is a discussion? I seem to have missed that between all the shouting that testing physics offline is just 10 minutes of a film where someone buys a powerdrill to have it lying around...
If you just knew how far off you are... Go on, keep digging your hole...

You still don't understand the difference between arguing by using an analogy, and arguing the analogy itself. iRacing is not a powerdrill or a movie. We never said that it was; you should get the point by now.

Anyway, I'll skip on this argument, I'm sure we'd have a much better time arguing face-to-face, when sensibility tends to take up a greater role in comparison to meaningless internet-quarrels.

Quint, take a sip from the cup of perspective, mate. If iR doesn't suit it doesn't suit. Whether that's because of the pricing structure, the value for money (eg. the lack of time available to get value for money) the content available so far or whatever, if someone chooses to either not buy into iR or to allow their subscription to lapse, that really shouldn't be enough for you to make a whole narky post of contention out of.

Well, some people are even paying for 1 month just to access member forums to preach how it's just a big scam and sim itself is worse than rFactor/N2K3/LFS/GTR2.


Edit: And Jertje, how do you manage to be so damn quick? 1.48:5 on Infineon already

Quote from Crommi :

Well, some people are even paying for 1 month just to access member forums to preach how it's just a big scam and sim itself is worse than rFactor/N2K3/LFS/GTR2.

I'll also just point out again that the sim is indeed not for everyone. This can't be argued I guess; it's just a new type of service and not everyone will appreciate how it is set up. However, in my opinion it is definitely the best sim out there from a technical point of view. The pricing might be a bit steep, but you do ultimately get what you pay for if you (are willing/able to) put the time in.

That, and one quick look around the iRacing community and you get the idea that a triple monitor-setup with a G25 is something a lot of those guys laugh at - let alone the subscription/content fees. I've seen plenty of cockpits that must be worth over 5 grand, easily. And even though I will never get into it that much (let's not try to explain that to a new girlfriend) and I never hope to spend that much on a hobby, it sure feels great to be racing with people who take it serious, even if all they want to do is have fun.

Edit: Crommi - I guess most of that speed is just left-overs from experience gained at Infineon-cup, but I feel that this is as fast as I'll be for a while. The Skippy doesn't suit my driving style all that much, and I can't get used to the Huttu-school of driving that aliens like Luke Mclean follow.

I also think everybody is entitled to their own opinion. But if you have an online sim and haven't tried it online then. That's a bit weird. If you can't find the button (that apparently everyone else found) to go online and use that as an argument why the sim sucks, then that's just ridiculous.

Again, I believe people who don't want to rent these tracks and cars have a total right to their opinion. Noone is arguing that. It's the reasons used that are argued and lets be honest. He didn't try playing online in an online sim. Cause he couldn't be arsed to find the button in a months time. Even that's fine, I guess... But coming here in front of everyone and saying "I'm ignorant and proud of it" is just dumb.

Quote from Jertje :

And even though I will never get into it that much (let's not try to explain that to a new girlfriend) and I never hope to spend that much on a hobby,

That conversation never goes well, especially if you decide to bring up the 'shoe spend' issue

Let's at least consider the premise that this thread is on the LFS forum, and largely frequented by people who are active LFS community members. I'd say that the first 70 pages were a genuine and fair mix of cautious optimism and nKP-tainted suspicion. Since iR was released, I've seen a mix of everything from people - from extreme dislike of the iR pricing to nasty and spiteful shit-slinging directly and personally at LFS devs. What I've also seen is genuine recognition of the value of iR by the LFS devs, and equally so from iR with regard to LFS, and I've seen that from community members too.

All in all, I'd say this thread's been pretty decent in recent weeks, considering that it IS on the LFS forum. A lot of LFSers have given iR a shot, and if some of them decide that it's not for them it's rather ridiculous to try to silence them or pooh-pooh their opinion. If they have a view, they should bloody well be able to voice it, most especially here.

I do think its ironic that an LFS member would criticize a mostly online racing game without racing online. Usually thats what people do to LFS!

yeah, i thought that was a bit funny too

But let's just leave it at that. If, for whatever reason, someone doesn't like iRacing enough to subscribe to it, it's entirely his choice.

And honestly, it may sound funny at first, to dismiss iRacing without even trying it online, but if you think about it, it's actually not. It depends on one's priorities. If for example, someone simply wanted to find out if iRacing offers physics that are far and beyond everything else on offer today, and if that would have been the only reason for him to justify the rather high cost, it's perfectly logical to not subscribe to it. It's not worth it in his opinion. Simple as that. And that's just one reason Tristan and/or Kev might have had. The other being the online racing structure etc.

each racing game has their merits....... LFS, rFactor, iRacing.

Quote from StableX :

each racing game has their merits....... LFS, rFactor, iRacing.

Absolutely (except for rF, obviously.. you just threw that in as a red herring, we know )

I'm a massive LFS fanbwoi, but I think I'd try it if iR took my credit card.

I have to say I absolutely LOVE LFS and a hell of alot that comes with it. The Devs, the community, the online racing, my team, leagues, our skins etc etc, I could go on and on.

But I find the issues I have with LFS have been addressed in iracing.

1. Wreckers - Safety Rating - Fixed, doesn't happen after you have raced a few races as you will never have the displeasure of meeting these muppets online again....EVER

2. Physics - The best thing about LFS is the physics are better than any other sim out there.....until now! Iracing feels a whole different ball game to LFS IMHO in the right direction. The FFB is out of this world and the whole experience feels "right".

3. Graphics - LFS has a great engine but I have been really frustrated to see the development in the last few years with LFS, it simply is outdated, anyone who says different must be blind, surely Shirley? Iracing shows exactly what I cannot understand about LFS. Why are the graphics 5 years behind?

4. Sound - LFS doesn't even support Surround Sound. Is this 2008? I had surround sound 10 years ago at least.... Iracing supports it.

5. Website Integration - LFS world is a fantastic website and integrates a little with LFS, Iracing's website is completley integrated into the sim.

6. Real Tracks & Cars - How many of you have asked a million times how good it would be to have real tracks and cars? People have even offered to give the DEVS laser scanned tracks for free, but have been turned down. I personally think this is THE biggest difference in iracing. The tracks are simply out of this world. Why? Because they were designed by the best track designers in the world and tested again and again by real life drivers and had a HUGE budget and plenty of time to make them. Even if Eric was the best track designer on the whole planet are you telling me he makes better tracks than the professional track designers who get paid millions can do? Laguna Sec is an experience I have never got close to in LFS. Then I was wondering where I was losing time, so I watched a REAL race to pick up lines, braking points from the best out there. LFS simply cannot offer that atm. If the devs allowed us to submit tracks (for approval or whatever) we could have this, but atm this isn't an option. We are stuck with tracks from 5 years ago. Maybe S3 will offer this, great, I will buy S3 anyway, so will play iracing until then....

My 2 cents

I think the developers of iracing have taken a branch (more than a leaf) out of LFS's book and have implemented all the things we have asked for in LFS, and more importantly, have delivered it NOW. LFS S3 will probably be just as good as iracing and a hell of a lot cheaper, but how long will we be waiting for it? Guesses? 2 Years? No chance at this rate..... 5 years? More realistic...

I am happy to pay to drive iracing and get this incredible experience but.... I will still play LFS. I can totally understand that if money is tight and you are not going to use iracing that much, it is not for you, not yet at least. But I don't think anyone here has the right to preach to anyone to pay money for a sim if it is not right for them or they can't afford it. It is expensive, and I don't agree with the pricing structure, but as LFS is developing so slowly I am willing to pay it.

I am sure I speak for almost everyone here in saying that LFS is the best value for money sim out there, and has given me many hours of fun, but if the development continues the way it has done in the 2 years I have been racing, it will seriously lose alot of racers from the communtity.

Quote from Nick A :

Hi Jason,

I'm struggling to decide whether to let my subscription expire or whether to go for the full year. I think I'd really like the Skip Barbers so if I went for the full year I'd probably use the credit to get the Skippy and the 2 tracks needed for the season. I've read mixed things about the Skippy though, although mainly positive. One of my concerns is that next season they'll rotate the tracks and I'll have to buy another 2 to be able to complete that season (and so on!) As another keen LFS single seater driver I'd appreciate your opinion. I know it's only day one but what are the numbers like in the Skippy at the moment?

I joined my first skippy session earlier and just spectated as I was too much of a noob at it to race (I would never do that in LFS). There were 50 people signed up for that one race.... The race was so close and people were so careful that it was a complete change from LFS and seemed more like real racing. In LFS you don't see people easing off to avoid accidents, they either go for it and crash, or take a different line and lose out. In iracing they were just easing a touch on the gas and taking them in the next corner, which is so difficult in LFS due to the strange drafting properties then send you in a straight line as soon as you get within 50 yards of the guy in front....

I agree with both your posts Jason.

However, I find that LFS has 1 little thing over iRacing and that's the members organizing events. The thrill of practicing for a month for a 4hour, 6 hour, 12 hour, 16 hour or even 24 hour race just isn't there. It feels like organized pickup racing. That's kind of why I'm always on LFS during the day and around 6 PM here which is around 11 PM GMT I go on iRacing for a little bit of fun.

As for the experience itself I completly agree with your post.

iracing doesn't come close to LFS in many area's and is more incomplete than LFS is aswell. Organising your own leagues etc is not possible yet, but they have said they will be implementing it in the future.