as i had mentioned in another thread, i seem to be 10s off the WR's... here are a couple replays of me on blackwood gp. why do i suck so bad?

i realize i don't have the best line in some places, but to be behind 10 seconds... that's a lot...

anyways, here they are... one in the fbm and one in the xfg. i'll do an fo8 one soon enough as well.

edit: okay, maybe not the xfg yet... i saved the replay, but it still deleted it after i closed lfs... well, here's one to start.

You are WAY too cautious. This is a race car, not your sunday driving car. Tbh, I got the impression that you are cruising from viewing the replay.

The track is wide, why not use the whole space? Turn less and touch the side of the track when you leave the corner, you keep up more speed like that. Especially when you enter the last corner. There is so much space on your right. Use it.

You are also at least 10 kph (that's probably an understatement) too slow in every corner. Brake late, stay on the very outside of the track until you turn in and floor it as soon as you hit the apex. There's no need to slowly get on the throttle with FBM. You might spin some times at the beginning but it will pay off in the end.

Download the WR replay and watch the lines and braking points. I guess you could gain at least 5 seconds by improving them.

The first thing you should fix is your racing line. As zeugnimod said above, you should use the whole width of the track, meaning to follow the track edge before every corner entry and after every corner exit (even if that occasionally means to use the kerbs).

Once you learn to do that you will find it easier to also increase your passing speed through the corners, since you'll have more working room on each one of them. During the learning period you could also increase the rear downforce a bit so you don't loose so easy the control of the car in the exit of the 1st chicane (the exit speed there is very important, due to the long straight that follows the chicane). Once you are comfortable with lines, braking and exiting throttle you shoule decrease the rear downforce back to its normal value and try again (low downforce = less grip + more maximum speed + more responsive cornering).

Good luck!

Press 4 and for the most part do as it says. Except in some yellow zones keep it floored.

I agree with zeugnimod in that you're not using enough of the track. I think this is your biggest problem. You need to learn to use the full width of the track on the entry and the exit of the corner. By using most of the track (taking a wide line into and out of the corners) you're basically making the corner more open, so you can carry much more speed at all points (corner entry, apex and corner exit). I don't know how your understanding is of these terms, so I'll give a little explanation of them below. If you already know, feel free to skip them.

Corner entry - By definition this would be the window between when you first turn the wheel to enter the corner and when you hit the apex. It's logical to include the braking in this though, as braking will have a massive impact on your corner entry. Braking can be an art in itself, so I've added an entry on that at the end. On the actual turn in, try to be smooth. If you turn in too aggressively you'll upset the car, which will generally cause it to have increased understeer or oversteer depending on the setup. At this point in your driver development you're looking to have the car neutral on the way into the corner - you don't want either the front or the rear to be sliding more than the other.
Apex - This is the point at which you stop entering the corner and start exiting it. It's just a transition point between the 2 stages.
Corner exit - This is the point where you're coming out of the corner so you have to start accelerating again. You should be unwinding the steering lock as you exit the corner, so there will be a time when you're steering at the same time as accelerating. At this point it can be easy to spin the driven wheels and end up facing the wrong way. This is a big problem in the FO8!
Braking - We all know what braking is but there's an art to doing it well. The goal is to decrease your speed (and gear) until you're at a point where you're going at the correct speed in the right gear for the corner. The correct speed and gear for each corner will vary widely based on car and conditions, this is mostly down to practise. Try to be smooth under braking, don't lock wheels for long periods of time and change down the gears smoothly - space them out a bit. If you change down too quickly you'll overrev the engine, causing it damage and potentially locking the driven wheels.

Now, onto more specific advice for your driving. Use more space! Look at the replay I've attached and check out how much of the track I'm using - I'm all over the track and running over the kerbs too. By doing that, I'm able to carry a lot more speed than I would be able to by using half the track. In the attached replay I've taken my time to get up to speed but I've always tried to use all of the track. You should do this too. Start off at a comfortable pace (it doesn't have to be quick but you have to be in control at all times!) and try to maximise the amount of track you use. Once you're happy you're using enough, start going faster. Brake a couple of metres later, turn in to the corner with a bit more speed and try to get on the gas a couple of metres earlier. Don't try to make big jumps. At this stage you're looking more for consistency than outright speed. Drive 100 laps in 10 lap stints. In each of those stints, try to put in at least 5 laps within 1 second.

Once you're comfortable doing that, start pushing harder again and repeat the process.

You're going to end up making mistakes (locking brakes a lot, crashing, spinning and running off the track). Don't be discouraged by this, it happens to everyone (even F1 drivers do it...). The important thing is that you should be making less mistakes when you start doing more laps, if you find yourself making the same number of mistakes, slow down a bit for a couple of laps then try again.

I'm not sure how much you'll be able to take from this post, but I hope it helps in some way. I've attached a replay and a setup that may help.

Good luck and have fun learning!

Quote from MijnWraak :

Press 4 and for the most part do as it says. Except in some yellow zones keep it floored.

I wouldn't recommend that.

Maybe it's because I already play LFS too long and know all tracks by heart anyway but I think this "racing line" teaches bad habits.

i try to stay away from the curbs, i have this tendency to run over them and instantly spin out.

thanks for the tips and the one setup though, i'll give it a few more days and maybe post another to compare.

Quote from bunder9999 :

i try to stay away from the curbs, i have this tendency to run over them and instantly spin out.

That can be due to your setup. Most common reason is the car bottoming out.

Quote from xaotik :

That can be due to your setup. Most common reason is the car bottoming out.

so what should i do to fix that, raise the ride height and slightly increase downforce?

Yeah, with the FBM the easiest way is to raise the ride-height and dial in more negative camber (raising the car reduces the latter).

youre braking bout a mile to early for evry corner.
then you are too gentle with the throttle.
after the esses you can touch the kerbs /wo a prob.

I just saw a couple of laps and I noticed:

- You don't hit the brakes, you just touch them gently. You have to step on the brakes with full force and then release them gradually (but not too much). Also you need to brake much later.
- You look like you don't care much about your line, you never hit an apex, and never use the track width when exiting corners.
- You are too late accelerating. Maybe this is because you are not confident in your counter-steering. Work on this too.
- Sometimes you are using the wrong gear. Maybe you went in too slow into a corner and instead of shifting down you keep and upper gear at very low rpms.

I recommend you to watch some WR replays with the pedal bars on. That way you can see how people step on the pedals (both brake and throttle), and how they use the full width of the track.

Also, in real life you have to set a starting point and then each time you try to brake a little later, step on the throttle earlier, etc. until you see where is your limit. This is a game, so you can try the opposite approach. Set yourself a risky starting point, and if it's too late and you get off-track, then try a little earlier until you discover how late you can brake into a corner.

I think your problem is that you don't understand the basics of sports driving. This is the first thing though, to understand how lines should be. You can try using the AI line (key '4'). After some time you will understand what racing lines are all about, and you'll be able to discover them by yourself when you are in a new track.

I see the theory of using the kerbing where possible, but this is what happens when I TRY to use them!!

Youre using too much of the kerb when that happens -.-

Bringing the steering wheel in neutral or almost neutral position when running over kerbs also helps. If you turn aggressively, the car leans to the side and then the kerb destabilizes it further.

so i was able to shave off four seconds yesterday, but i can't seem to maintain that...

my problem now is that i either understeer mid-turn after the long straight, then oversteer coming out of it... as well as the last corner. or i sometimes also oversteer coming out of the T1 S corner. same with the second turn of the S corner after the long straight... the back wheels seem to just slide out. i think i might also be just slightly touching the dirt.

Well this is how i got on at blackwood, XFG, XRG, and RB4, not really very good in any of them! For me the XFG seemed easiest to handle, The XRG handles like a boat and keeps spinning out all the time, and the RB4 either ploughs in a dead straight line coming into bends, or oversteers like hell and i lose all control.

Here are the replays and the setups i used.

I have come to the conclusion that i cant drive!

Quote from danthebangerboy :

and the RB4 either ploughs in a dead straight line coming into bends, or oversteers like hell and i lose all control.

Thats because of your weird setup. Where did you get it? Locked diff on front :nut: -> the car understeers a lot, impaired by too much camber. Tyre pressure is too low, i think, makes the car feel loose and react slow.

Quote from danthebangerboy :

The XRG handles like a boat

same here: way too low tyre pressure plus too soft springs

Quote from danthebangerboy :

The XRG ... and keeps spinning out all the time

<= locked diff, low tyre pressure, stiff anti roll bar on the rear.


Use the race_s setups, they are pretty good at the beginning.

Quote from bunder9999 :

so i was able to shave off four seconds yesterday, but i can't seem to maintain that...

my problem now is that i either understeer mid-turn after the long straight, then oversteer coming out of it... as well as the last corner. or i sometimes also oversteer coming out of the T1 S corner. same with the second turn of the S corner after the long straight... the back wheels seem to just slide out. i think i might also be just slightly touching the dirt.

Are you using the set I posted? Have you watched the replay I posted?

Quote from amp88 :

Are you using the set I posted? Have you watched the replay I posted?

yes, i have.

this is really starting to frustrate me... you guys tell me to drive faster, drive wider, use the curbs, stop being such a wussy on the brakes, and all i get for it is crashes and spinouts.

sorry, i don't mean to sound crabby... i'm just thinking that i can't drive this car... i've been playing off-and-on all day, and this is pretty much the same result.

here's another replay. i'm starting to think either i need a super ridiculous setup, or going back to the xfg.

maybe i need one-on-one training. :ices_rofl

[Keep in mind that I am not a very experienced driver, in fact I'd call myself a noob. Also, I did not get a chance to drive FBM/BL1 with a wheel yet, my PB is about 1:16.5 with a gamepad.]

There is some improvement from the replay you posted before, but a lot of problems are persisting.

0) S/F straight:
study the WR line through it. You are hugging the left side too closely and can't get a smooth entry into the final portion as a result.

1) Turn after the Start/Finish straight:
You start braking right at the crest of the elevation, where the inertia unloads the front wheels (since the car almost "jumps" off the top point), and get an immediate lockup as a result. That messes up your entry into T1. Brake just before you reach the top of the hump.

2) Chicane:
"getting" it takes some experience. Unless you have a feel for the proper racing line, you will not perform great here. Also, how you attack T1 influences your entry into the chicane. Try some other tracks and cars, develop your driving style, then it will come.

3) Turn after the long straight -- brake a bit earlier (about a car's length from the rumblestrip), turn a bit earlier. Also, you are not using the whole width of the track, even though it may seem so from the cockpit -- you still have about a car's width to your left.

4) Esses after that:
Again, you are in the middle of the road. That drops your turn-in speed, and you cannot get a proper entry into the second part of the esses. Stay to the left (the track curves to the left a bit, follow it). Also, in my experience you should turn just a bit earlier than what seems "right" to get a good line through the esses.

5) Right turn:
Again, middle of the road, bad entry, bad exit, risk of running out into the sand.

6) Final esses:
Stay as far to the right as possible. There is concrete beyond the rumblestrip, use all of it. Turn-in should start much earlier than you think (by the time you reach the end of the rumblestrip, you should be turning; also, your right front wheel should travel right at the end of the rumblestrip, but not farther than that). Again, this is a place where general experience helps a lot.

Just curious, is this your first sim game? I think reading up on sports driving will significantly speed up your progress.

EDIT:
I actually find it quite helpful to drive a track in MRT first. Since you are so close to the ground, you can sometimes literally see the trajectories you want to take through turns, or nasty bumps you want to avoid.

I think the main problem you have and that I have seen many times is the racing line.

On entry get REALLY close to the grass. I mean 1 inch from it MAX. Get really close then when you approach the turn turn towards the apex aiming for the outside of the track after the turn. Try to steer as less as possible. On exit of the corner once again use every little inch of track you can get and then get set up for the next turn. As for braking, watch out. You're locking up way too much and it's causing a lot of wear and unpredictable behavior from the tires. Try to brake hard, yes, but when you see it locks ease off a bit or pump it slightly. In the second replay your taking way too much curb at some points. In the chicane before the back straight, you can't take much in the curb because it is very steep and dangerous so just take a bit and then on the slight right towards the straight put 2 wheel on the dirt and 2 on the track and try to use as less steering as possible once again.

Practice and you'll get it. If I ever meet you online I'll try to help you.

Quote from Ahriman4891 :

Just curious, is this your first sim game? I think reading up on sports driving will significantly speed up your progress.

first with a wheel... just an old gran turismo fan.

/me ducks

Don't give up, it will take some time but you'll get there. For a start, I think you need a good setup. This is Vincper's setup who used to have the world record a few days ago. It's not easy to drive it as is, so decrease the brake power about 20 clicks (this will help you NOT locking your wheels while braking) and increase the brake bias 3-4 clikcs (this will help you NOT loosing the rear while braking & turning).

If you keep loosing the rear while accelerating, increase 2 clicks the rear downforce.

All the above will be pointless if you don't correct your racing line. The best way to begin with is to download a replay (preferably Vincper's, since you aready have his setup) and press 4 while you are watching it. It will show a green line, representing the racing line. Study it all the way (especiall corners entry & exit)!

Good luck!

PS. What wheel are you using and how many degrees of steering?

Quote from migf1 :

Don't give up, it will take some time but you'll get there. For a start, I think you need a good setup. This is Vincper's setup who used to have the world record a few days ago. It's not easy to drive it as is, so decrease the brake power about 20 clicks (this will help you NOT locking your wheels while braking) and increase the brake bias 3-4 clikcs (this will help you NOT loosing the rear while braking & turning).

If you keep loosing the rear while accelerating, increase 2 clicks the rear downforce.

All the above will be pointless if you don't correct your racing line. The best way to begin with is to download a replay (preferably Vincper's, since you aready have his setup) and press 4 while you are watching it. It will show a green line, representing the racing line. Study it all the way (especiall corners entry & exit)!

Good luck!

PS. What wheel are you using and how many degrees of steering?

g25, and i guess full 900 degrees... since linux doesn't provide force feedback (for the g25) yet, i've only got the centering spring. i imagine i'd probably drive a little better if the wheel moved itself, but i seem to be alright.

i'll goof around with the brakes.

edit: i didn't originally want to play with the brakes, removing the ability to lock up seems... artificial.