First and foremost I have to say that I absolutely love the LFS engine. We have best physics (real-time deformation of tyres, what the heck!) and best netcode. That’s basically recipe for most fun racing under the sun. Well and then there’s the community, which is... I really do not want to repeat myself but it is best I know of.

One of few downsides of LFS is the lack of cars and tracks. To be honest I feel like I knew every inch of every track like my pocket.
Some other simulator solve this with modding.

Now that’s quite a topic because most of us know rFactor and the mess of mods it is tangled in... We certainly do not want that, it’d suck.

But somewhere halfway between user-generated content and developer generated content lie moderated mods.

Imagine that you start LFS in three months and you can download one new track and two new cars handpicked by Scawen and the moderators or other authority. This would solve the main problem of modding: abundant quantity of low-quality half-arsed work.

Imagine, we’d get just creme de la creme, just the best. There wouldn’t be overwhelming mass of incompatible mods, but high-quality tracks and cars. What I am talking about quality-wise is something like 4th GTR class car, the Orions Raceabout GTR:

Or the laser scanned track rFactor players got not so long ago:



I know, that Scawen and company generates his revenue not through the engine, even major updates are available for free, but through new content.
I’d like to pay for the content! And I know that I am not alone.
Either the moderated mods would be available just for people with pre-paid S3 licence, we’d be charged per track/car or we’d buy subscription, but these are mere suggestions. What I really want to say is that Scawen can make his living even with moderated mods.
And I haven’t asked any lawyers yet, so there is still a question. Could we avoid the ridiculously high licencing fees for tracks and cars this way? (I think so, look at rfactor guys racing pretty much every reallife track you can name)

And then: Is this whole moderated mods a good idea?

We had quite a discussion about this topic on the Czech forum and this came out as the best thing to do, so please share your opinion!

Vitek Mistina aka windmouse

edit: this surely was posted before, but I could find the thread, sorry for that...

Its been suggested a lot and the general message is "If Scawen wants to do it, he will. LFS is a dictatorship not a democracy.)

However, i'm all for it.

Well I do like the idea, I mean Ship Simulator is one of those games where everything created by the users is strictly monitored by the Developers, if they like the content created, it's usually included in an updated patch and/or addon pack (at a cost).

well I'd like to request people who voted against to tell me their reasons, that's the point of me posting this

there surely is a good number of reasons against this particular solution of content creation and I want to know what they are

I'm keen to see new content, but i'm also accutely aware that the odds of getting any before S2 is final are slim. Perhaps we'll get an 'expansion' pack, or S3 alpha, or some facility to mod in some way - but it wont be before S2 is final.

Quote from windmouse :

well I'd like to request people who voted against to tell me their reasons, that's the point of me posting this

there surely is a good number of reasons against this particular solution of content creation and I want to know what they are

A reason people may not want to pay for the mods is that if someone doesn't want to pay extra to download a mod then they don't have to. But everyone else will have and they don't be able to race on half of the servers online leaving them with crap online. And they're then forced to buy the addons.

The devs could setup a kind of moderating force to work alongside the forum moderators just to check the mods that are released. However the mods would need to be strictly controlled as any unofficial website can just host any mod without moderation.

Quote from mcintyrej :

A reason people may not want to pay for the mods is that if someone doesn't want to pay extra to download a mod then they don't have to. But everyone else will have and they don't be able to race on half of the servers online leaving them with crap online. And they're then forced to buy the addons.

The devs could setup a kind of moderating force to work alongside the forum moderators just to check the mods that are released. However the mods would need to be strictly controlled as any unofficial website can just host any mod without moderation.

So you mean it'd be too much work with all the moderation to pay off the expenses (mainly in man-hours) assuming the mods would be free?
Or rather that people would find way to publish their own mods without any moderation and we'd end up with a mess?

Quote from mcintyrej :

A reason people may not want to pay for the mods is that if someone doesn't want to pay extra to download a mod then they don't have to. But everyone else will have and they don't be able to race on half of the servers online leaving them with crap online. And they're then forced to buy the addons.

The devs could setup a kind of moderating force to work alongside the forum moderators just to check the mods that are released. However the mods would need to be strictly controlled as any unofficial website can just host any mod without moderation.

Sorry, but so what, those who dont pay, dont get the new content, sometime you cant have things as you cant afford it.

The whole point of the idea, (and any idea that get new cars and tracks is good IMO) is to have it available.

Face facts most people would buy it, one idea would be give it away for S2 offline use but you cant use it online unless you buy it.

I always think the devs miss out, over 50% of users are Demo, i spend 10 times more each year on servers than i ever will on LFS so it would be great to be able to buy content and give something back.

Allowing modding in this manner would have people from others sims "coming back" to LFS straight away.

I have used LFS for 3 years, its cost £24, i have sims that cost 3 times as much and have only lasted a week.

Great idea +1 but there is not a cat in hells chance it will ever happen

Please no other Payments....
Would have fitted better in the Improvement Suggetions IMO

Quote from Xaid0n :

Well I do like the idea, I mean Ship Simulator is one of those games where everything created by the users is strictly monitored by the Developers, if they like the content created, it's usually included in an updated patch and/or addon pack (at a cost).

ARCA Sim Racing has opened up to the mod community in this way also. You submit new content to the dev team. If they deem it worthy, it goes in an official patch.

Quote from Danke :

ARCA Sim Racing has opened up to the mod community in this way also. You submit new content to the dev team. If they deem it worthy, it goes in an official patch.

And what are the results, is it win-win or not very good?

Quote from windmouse :

And what are the results, is it win-win or not very good?

I don't think anyone has actually submitted anything yet.

i think it is a very good idea in all honesty, it would have to be done carefully and maybe not even as seperats you download yourself but as content that comes with the game automatically so everyong with lfs and s2 or s3 as it may be has the same content to stop all the confusion with online racing and people not having the correct car/tract to use on that server

Quote from mcintyrej :

Its been suggested a lot and the general message is "If Scawen wants to do it, he will. LFS is a dictatorship not a democracy.)

However, i'm all for it.

This is everything that needs to be said on this topic, IMO.

There's still the issue of licensing, the Devs wouldn't be able to endorse real content. Modding really has to be open or none at all, and with open modding you will get mainly rubbish however straight forward and idiot proof you make the modding process. Given the Devs current policy towards including real content I don't really see that modding would help increase it, more community members coming up with attractive content opportunities may be more relevant.

Quote from ajp71 :

There's still the issue of licensing, the Devs wouldn't be able to endorse real content. Modding really has to be open or none at all, and with open modding you will get mainly rubbish however straight forward and idiot proof you make the modding process. Given the Devs current policy towards including real content I don't really see that modding would help increase it, more community members coming up with attractive content opportunities may be more relevant.

who needs licensing with the rac gtr is there a real RAC gtr?? and you don't need to make real cars scawen came up with the RB4.

/me wants a RAC GTR, RB4 GTR and teh Nürburgring!

Quote from mutt107 :

who needs licensing with the rac gtr is there a real RAC gtr?? and you don't need to make real cars scawen came up with the RB4.

No, but there is a real RAC, and the owners of that copyright might not want to see their car as the basis for a racing version in a computer game. They hold the rights, not Scavier.

I don't want LFS turn out into Live for iRacing... I'm for moderated mods and I would even pay 36 pounds for S3, but I would NEVER pay for each track/car.

If the mods are hand-picked by the devs, and they're not pay-per-mod, yes

If not, no

But it doesn't really matter, it's not going to happen - if the devs wanted to do it, they would have done it already

Quote from mythdat :

If the mods are hand-picked by the devs, and they're not pay-per-mod, yes

If not, no

But it doesn't really matter, it's not going to happen - if the devs wanted to do it, they would have done it already

Maybe they plan to do it, but only after the S2 goes gold...

But anyways, that's just wild speculation on both my and your side.

I'd really like to hear what Scawen himself has to say on this topic.

I call for new content for a long time now and thus I'm all for this idea! But I don't like the pay-per-content idea. This would divide the community into those who have all the content and those who don't...

Quote from Zachary Zoomy :

/me wants a RAC GTR, RB4 GTR and teh Nürburgring!

me too

I voted no simply because I'd like to see LFS remain a SCAVIER only endeavor.

Quote from mcintyrej :

Its been suggested a lot and the general message is "If Scawen wants to do it, he will. LFS is a dictatorship not a democracy.)

However, i'm all for it.

brilliant! ...and +1