Georgia = Al-Qaeda
Russia = USA & UK

If you support the USA & UK invading Iraq then you can't oppose Russia invading Georgia unless you want to be a hypocrit. Georgia started the war by bombing Russian civilians in South Ossetia, Russia used that as an excuse to invade Georgia. Al-Qaeda attacked American civilians, the USA & UK used that as an excuse to go into Afganistan and invade Iraq. This situation is more similar to the USA and other nations going into Afganistan than the USA & UK going into Iraq, because the invasion of Iraq had no purpose since Al-Qaeda had never operated there and Iraq posed no threat to the USA or UK.

That does pretty well sum it up from what I can see, ATCQ, and Russia has an ethnic interest in Georgia as well. We came from nowhere to go into Afghanistan, over 1 man. Would have made more sense for 6 SAS troops to go in to Afghanistan than the combined US and UK armed forces. As for invading Iraq.. god only knows how we'll justify over a million civilian deaths in the history books. I just know we'll try.

I think Mr Georgia made a huge miscalculation in allowing the ethnic cleansing to be seen in SO by the Russians. Given the strategic importance of Georgia, I'm pretty sure if I were Russia, I'd see 'em and raise 'em too.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

Georgia started the war by bombing Russian civilians in South Ossetia

Technically that may be correct, but:
- Georgia allegedly responded to attacks from Ossetian nationalists, who are being actively supported, if not armed, by Russia. The history of the conflict goes back to 1990.
- Those "Russian civilians" were Ossetians AFAIK, who will consider themselves Russian only insofar as it helps them in their strive for independence.
- Putin probably does consider them Russians. The Ossetians have yet to learn what Putin thinks about their right to independence...

Quote :

The Ossetians have yet to learn what Putin thinks about their right to independence

Being Welsh I have some idea what it's like not to have a national identity.

It isnt worth fighting for.

It's just a damned flag and the guy you pay your protection money too, sorry taxes, and sends you off to die in the name of freedom whilst pocketing the change.

All over the world people are prepared to die in the name of 'freedom', exchanging one paperwork system for another. Even in Western Europe. Why was there fighting in Northern Ireland for freedom from Britain when we're all European anyway? Why is there still fighting in Basque to gain independence from Spain when we're all European anyway?

So why do these people want independence from one paperwork system to gain another?

Because the fight is worth more than the prize, and the ones who pay the price are the ones who don't hold the guns.

Quote from Becky Rose :

Being Welsh I have some idea what it's like not to have a national identity.

You don't sound very Welsh. Have you ever lived in Wales?

Quote from Becky Rose :

Why was there fighting in Northern Ireland for freedom from Britain when we're all European anyway? Why is there still fighting in Basque to gain independence from Spain when we're all European anyway?

The issue is, I guess, who gets to be boss: "us" or "them". (Which begs the question who the hell invented the us vs. them distinction.)

BTW, be careful using the "we're all European anyway" argument. It was used back in 1942 by a couple of chaps who dropped in without being invited...

Quote from flymike91 :

The next target will be the next ex-soviet country to try to join NATO. One of the parts of the treaty after the cold war was that NATO would not extend its influence eastward, which is exactly what is happening and exactly why Russia is so pissed.

Well then who isn't to trust?

Quote from thisnameistaken :

You don't sound very Welsh. Have you ever lived in Wales?

I'll answer that in private sometime and you'll understand why if I chose to explain why I don't answer that in a forum thread. Anyway I do understand what your implying and yes you get lots of flag waving in Wales, but then go abroad and say your Welsh and people call you English. That's the way the cookie crumbles, it's no biggy to me (except when i'm being deliberately obtuse) as I think is clear from my attitude toward it, i'm not about to start shooting people to get recognition for being a bit of a Ddraig. Anyway I hate leaks.

Quote from flymike91 :

I think if anyone sends troops for anything more than aid it should be Ukraine, Estonia or the UK.

Worst idea ever. Look up the Litvinenko Poison Case and then all the tom foolery which followed. Britain and Russia are said to have relations like those seen in the Cold War.

Ok I was wrong on that point.
The more I look into this the more interesting it gets. I'm taking a year long course on Russian history with focus on the cold war and I've learned that the 90's were the equivalent to the great depression in Russia. Unemployment rose exponentially, there was murder in the streets, etc. but ever since new millennium Russia has been rolling in oil and natural gas money. Now it seems as though they feel strong enough to reassert their dominance over eastern europe and perhaps even attempt to rebuilt a Russian empire. They basically feel like they got shit on after the cold war and are now trying to relive some soviet-era glory days.

I've also heard (need some verification from a polish person on this rumor) that the US was trying for years to install a missile defense system in Poland but the Poles didn't like it because they thought it might aggravate Russia. now that Russia is already aggravated they lunged for the pen and allowed us to build the missile defense system as well as place medium range cruise missiles in Poland. I have no idea if this is actually true so don't kill me. If it is its very ironic as this is exactly what Russia did to us in cuba and it almost sparked nuclear holocaust.

Link, has quite a lot of information on the system, as does a lot of the BBC News website (though their search feature is a bit rubbish).

ah it seems the poles are more enthusiastic about the missile system than I thought, and their priority is protecting themselves from Russia. Good link (for being BBC I mean )

Quote from Becky Rose :

I'll answer that in private sometime and you'll understand why if I chose to explain why I don't answer that in a forum thread.

Er... Alright? It was a pretty innocent question, didn't mean anything by it.

Quote from Becky Rose :

Anyway I do understand what your implying and yes you get lots of flag waving in Wales, but then go abroad and say your Welsh and people call you English.

Don't you get called English in England? You certainly sound English - I can't spot even a trace of a Welsh accent in your voice.

I don't have an issue with Welsh nationalism, but I do think it's funny the way they'll take an English word, keep the phonetics but scramble the spelling beyond all recognition and call it a Welsh word. The Scots do that too - it's very quaint.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Don't you get called English in England? You certainly sound English - I can't spot even a trace of a Welsh accent in your voice.

I have the posh home counties accent sure and I can indeed pass for being English, I can't pass for Welsh when I go Cardiff though unless I speak Welsh, which I speak enough to fool somebody from Cardiff where nobody speaks it but if I head out into the valleys i'd be rumbled pretty fast! If these isles wheren't "Britain" i'd probably wonder what nationality I really was. I mean i'm Scottish enough to have a family tartan (which I wont wear coz it's sucky, and saying that almost had be killed by my nan once) but Scots people will typically reffer to me as English and I've enough Irish blood to not consider a half-breed like me Irish. I guess i'll just have to ask Victor to put the pride flag on the forum and use that instead :P