today is my day for posting...

Ive read thru quite a couple tyre temperature discussions (real life vs LFS etc).

But here's my problem... im messing around with a set to use for a 30 lap enduro around aston north. (FXR) I managed to get a develope a pretty neat quali set but am struggle with race set. the problem i have is that i am able to generate surface heat but not core heat.

I dont have much time on my hands at the mo so if anyone has an idea how i can play around with tyre pressures to generate less surface heat, but more core heat, please let me know.

Real life experience tells me that increasing pressures will create heat quicker but tyre wont last longer. and softer pressures will generate heat over longer distance but preserve tyre?!?! but then again, ive heard ppl argue the exact opposite, so i was wondering if someone could help me with regards to what works in LFS.

Or am i perhaps not going to solve this problem using temps?

Thanks

Quote from Dizzydarryn :

Real life experience tells me that increasing pressures will create heat quicker but tyre wont last longer. and softer pressures will generate heat over longer distance but preserve tyre?!?! but then again, ive heard ppl argue the exact opposite, so i was wondering if someone could help me with regards to what works in LFS.

I've always been under the impression that:

- lower pressure gets your tyres warm quicker, and increases wear (so they don't last as long)

- higher pressure gets your tyres less hot, and decreases wear (they last longer)

Seems pretty logical to me A "flatter" tyre has a bigger contact patch, thus generates more friction => more wear. Kinda makes me wonder what "real life experience" you've got

As for your question on how you can generate more core temp... I'm curious about that myself 'cause I have the same problem with some setups/cars.

Why would you want to have a higher core (=air) temp?

Quote from obsolum :

I've always been under the impression that:

- lower pressure gets your tyres warm quicker, and increases wear (so they don't last as long)

- higher pressure gets your tyres less hot, and decreases wear (they last longer)

Seems pretty logical to me A "flatter" tyre has a bigger contact patch, thus generates more friction => more wear. Kinda makes me wonder what "real life experience" you've got

As for your question on how you can generate more core temp... I'm curious about that myself 'cause I have the same problem with some setups/cars.

If only it were as simple as that... Last year i won the South African sports car championship... We ran on goodyear slicks (13 inch width on the rear). My race engineer believed the same thing you say above, and we found this to be true.

This year however, im racing production cars (sa version of touring cars just about) on bridgestone semi slicks. one of the engineers (working mainly with the formula vws - on avon slicks), who is an ex Rotax max World Champion believes the opposite.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=46541 Discussed here

But, im trying not to get into that debate, what im more interested in is generating more core temperature using tyre pressures, as my set at the moment, is only generating surface temperature. going to a different tyre compound doesnt help because the tyre only lasts a few laps.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Why would you want to have a higher core (=air) temp?

Because at the moment, my core temps are dark blue (cold).

Ive read the debates around cooler core temp better because surface temp is cooled etc etc...

But surely very cold is not so great? Or maybe it is in LFS?

Or am i missing something?

Does the core temperature actually matter that much? I thought it was just the surface that affects grip and whatnot?

The tires are tend to generate more heat when they are under inflated than normal pressure value. Heat generated by more deflection of under inflated tire and more friction due to the larger contact area. It happened to me once: when I driving my car I noticed something like oversteering, after the visual inspection of the car I found one of my rear tire is leaking. And it was very very hot.

At LFS, I found similar effect. Low tyre pressure: more grip, less speed, more heat. You probably using R4 tires at FXR I guess. I have not much experience on this car but I think you need more deflection to generate core heat. Therefore you need to lower tyre pressure to allow it to move axially. By doing this you will also have raised contact pact temp. some amount.

And lastly, core temp. is a indicator that tells us the pressure of the tire is increasing due to the heat. If its cooler I think its better if your grip level is not affected or not affected badly. Let it be like that. If it stays cooler (blue) it means that your configuration (car+tyres+and your driving style) can not generate more heat, so its stays cooler. Means your tyre pressures are remains similar level with your adjustments in pit.

afaik, core temps have nothing to do with handling. (only type of tire and surface temp). Well also if surface is more thin then you have more top speed.
Also, i've noticed that core temps stay blue in for example R4's, and in R2's they heat up easy.

Quote from Dizzydarryn :

Because at the moment, my core temps are dark blue (cold).

Ive read the debates around cooler core temp better because surface temp is cooled etc etc...

But surely very cold is not so great? Or maybe it is in LFS?

Or am i missing something?

Well, as the core "cools" the tread (which, in turn, cools the surface - Ctrl + Shift for that), you can push harder and the temperature will still stay at optimum...

There is a catch however: as the tread wears thin, it will be hard for you to get any workable temperature in those tyres... Depending on the car you'll be driving, this may be of importance to you...

The core temperature only affects
1) the tyre pressure (slightly)
2) the temperatures on the surface

A cold air temperature can help keep the surface cooler, whereas a warm temp can help you keep the tyre at temp when its cooldown phase starts.

The tyre pressure does change a bit, but the effect is negligible considering how well LFS' tyres work at even pretty ridiculous pressures. Driving on high pressure tyres will initially cause more heat to be generated on the surface due to less grip and more scrubbing, but less heat is generated overall because there's more air to heat inside the tyre and much less heat generated by tyre deformation.

Overall the effect of the core temperature is pretty minimal and only really matters over the long run/in endurance races. There's far more important stuff to lose your sleep about than this, at least in LFS.

Quote from bbman :

There is a catch however: as the tread wears thin, it will be hard for you to get any workable temperature in those tyres... Depending on the car you'll be driving, this may be of importance to you...

That's another thing I've had some doubts about. How can I see how much wear my tyres have got in LFS (if that's even possible). I know how can read the temperatures and all and what the different patches represent, I even know about Ctrl+shift. But I've always wondered where I can see how much wear my tyres have got

Are you trying to solve this the wrong way, rather than heat up the air inside more, perhaps cool off the surface temperature - which would let you run a softer compound and get more grip. Are you slipping and sliding too much in your driving style?

Thanks for all the comments...

I have spent a bit of time playing around and found the following:

Softer pressures cause the entire tyre to heat up quicker (core and surface). I went dramatically softer and both the core and surface increased in temperature very quickly!!! but def didnt last.

Going harder kept the core cooler for longer, but also gave me more life out of the tyre!

A smoother driving style also helped to control the surface temperatures which kinda goes without saying!

I believe in F1 they use pure nitrogen (?) instead of air in the tyres so the temperature of the tyre doesnt affect tyre pressure.

Yes, but the 19% (or close enough) oxygen is enough to be affected by heat. They do it in aeroplane tyres too, due to the massive changes in air pressure and heat.

Quote from scipy :

lol. idiot. air is almost 80 % nitrogen anyway.

Actually, tenmantaylor is right.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Actually, tenmantaylor is right.

I thought it's not the removal of the 19% oxygen that is important, rather the removal of any water vapour?

Quote from scipy :

lol. idiot. air is almost 80 % nitrogen anyway.

Sheesh... That's some uncalled aggression there, mister.

Apparently, the tyres are normally filled with dry "filtered" air, to remove the water vapour, but as tenmantaylor says most of the teams do actually replace the filtered air with pure nitrogen.

Not quite the "idiot" you decreed, eh scipy?

Quote from scipy :

lol. idiot. air is almost 80 % nitrogen anyway.

He made a correct statement and you incorrectly called him an idiot. Not that you had any reason to call him such even if he was wrong.
Your behaviour in this case is unacceptable. Consider this a warning.

Quote from AndroidXP :

The thickness of the patches.

That guys not doing so well, having those kinds of tyres at the start lights!

Yeah, he overdid it in the warm-up lap and now was to start with a flatspot

Quote from AndroidXP :

The thickness of the patches.

it's wrong, isn't it?

the displayed tyre pads are the ones on the road, not the ones at the top. IIRC.

Or am I reading your thingy wrong?

...what?
Nothing on that picture is wrong. The picture on left top corner represents the tires on that car.