I really don't understand what is with this muscle car stereotype of always understeering. Aren't the Dodge Viper ACR and the Chevrolet C6 ZR1 muscle cars? They are and they can do a lap around the Nurburgring faster then a Ferrari, a Lamborghini or a Porsche. I'm pretty sure if they would have understeered so badly, they wouldn't have beaten their european competitors. Don't speak about something you never tried in person.
Yeah the new zr1 is amazing, but when people say "american muscle" they think before 60's to early 70's muscle cars, which, afaik, is what this thread is about.
You tried all those cars in person and on the Ring no less?
No, but I'm not criticizing a car by it's stereotype, I relied on lap data. Back on topic I would like a V8 powered car in the style of a FIA Chevrolet Corvette as a competitor for the current GTR cars.
Quote from a wiki: Although opinions vary, it is generally accepted that classic muscle cars were produced in the late 1960s and early 1970s.
I tend to agree with that, so I don't see why the Corvette and Viper are brought up. In any case: "Don't speak about something you never tried in person" is just a spectacular quote, I think I'll hang on to it.
I tend to agree with that, so I don't see why the Corvette and Viper are brought up. In any case: "Don't speak about something you never tried in person" is just a spectacular quote, I think I'll hang on to it.
I also agree with that, but it refers to classic muscle cars, this thread's name is American Muscle.When people say american muscle, they think about any sport or Grand Tourer car with a big engine that comes from the U.S.A. so the Dodge Viper ACR or a FIA Chevrolet Corvette perfectly fall in the muscle car category.
No...American Muscle brings to mind the old chevvies and dodges. It doesn't bring up new supercars. They'd just be the same as the GTRs anyway, the proper muscle cars would be a new class altogether.
Well I won't argue about what is a muscle car and what isn't, I would like to see a car similar to this as well:
Well I would like to see both the new Vipers n stuff, and the classic American muscle cars. I was just saying that the new Vipers aren't muscle cars in the traditional sense of the word 
Definitions of muscle car on the Web:
Sometimes called “Pony Cars” too. Big giant V8 engines with super chargers and special exhaust created these gas-guzzlers that were really ...
www.buy-and-sell-car-secrets.com/car-model-terms.html
A muscle car is an automobile with a high horse power engine, modest weight, capable of producing high levels of acceleration. ...
www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_car
furthermore
So actually, understeer isnt a stereotype. The understeer was the definition of the car itself
If a muscle car would be added, id vote for any of these
Sometimes called “Pony Cars” too. Big giant V8 engines with super chargers and special exhaust created these gas-guzzlers that were really ...
www.buy-and-sell-car-secrets.com/car-model-terms.html
A muscle car is an automobile with a high horse power engine, modest weight, capable of producing high levels of acceleration. ...
www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_car
furthermore
So actually, understeer isnt a stereotype. The understeer was the definition of the car itself
If a muscle car would be added, id vote for any of these
I know for a fact that I'll get flamed to hell and back for this, but i think the game needs some classic muscle, new stuff on a drag strip just isnt right. Also, who really cares if they handle like a boat, learn to drive them, or just don't drive them at all.
+1, the boat-like handling is part of the charm. Imagine T1 with 20 Cudas? Epic
This.
Give this man a prize.
I'm pretty sure I said that already back in post #69 
You can have a prize as well 
Sweet! Can my prize be a 67 Camaro?
The postage would be horrendous.
Hmm yeah? Check the Corvette ZR-1.
I don't think a completely vintage muscle car would be what's best for LFS. At least not as the first muscle car type of model. The present retro US cars or maybe modern Aussie muscle cars would probably be characteristic enough. One to fit in the LRF class would be the best, I think.
Why not? What makes one kind of car "best" over any other kind? What makes one kind more or less suitable for LFS? Surely what we need is as many types of vehicle as possible to appeal to as many people as possible?
I love muscle from the 50s and 60s, and that's the era that real widespread car enthusiasm stems from. Big boats like the 57 Fairlane or Bel Air are beautiful and deserve a place as much as any other car does. The 65 Stang or Camaros even more so. Look how many people still go nuts over collecting or at least looking at these classics today - there is a huge market for them.
There are no amazingly popular movies (Grease) or songs (Mustang Sally) written about new Aussie muscle cars
I just think it'd be too much of a culture shock. I think if Scavier will have to come up with yet another frankenstein (in the nicest way) synthesis of all cars of the type to make LFS' rendition of its archetype.. Then they ought to pick the best parts. That is, something that's less well handling than the cars common pretty much everywhere else on the planet, on paper, but still is a blast to ride.. As is characteristic of the real muscle cars. Idem for the rest of the characteristics such as engine character etc.. Something that has none of the european or asian cute body curves.. I think the current Mustang (and maybe a few others) retro is a great example of compromise between vintage and modern bodywork. It certainly would be a great (the best imo) opportunity to have a kick-your-ass bodywork design added to LFS' carset.
Vintage cars certainly did that, arguably, the best of all. But I just think it would be too much of a shock for most players to get such a difficult horse to tame (tho all of the LRF already is so), and putting a completely vintage bodywork on a modern chassis would be too strange.
So yeah we need the whole gamut.. But I'm saying this because one has to be first.. Priority should go to the one that'd please LFS players the most. Such a model improvised from the best traits of all muscle cars (rather than sticking to a narrow period/model range) also gives Scavier the best opportunity to flex their car design muscle.
It's really about satisfying a particular staple of motorsports, the same way the mini and Porsche and caterham, etc, all were.
... An off the wall idea.. The Alfa Romeo 8C could probably be a valid alternative to an American/Aussie muscle car.. Though it would 'cannibalize' on the appeal of including a typical italian exotic (or something typicaly italian) and on the appeal of typical US/AU muscle car's handling character.. And LFS would really benefit from that ANyway I don't think Scavier would go for copying just one car unless it had really made its niche, made its path for a long long time in motorsports, like the 911 did. The 8C's probably not going to be around much longer than e.g. the Testarossa. Whereas the 911, muscle cars, or caterham-like designs have and will for some time yet.
Anyway.. One way or another, LFS has yet to get a big meaty engine. Offsetting such an engine would most naturaly be by handicapping handling performance, which is as good as saying "muscle car". There.. now we're back to square one
Vintage cars certainly did that, arguably, the best of all. But I just think it would be too much of a shock for most players to get such a difficult horse to tame (tho all of the LRF already is so), and putting a completely vintage bodywork on a modern chassis would be too strange.
So yeah we need the whole gamut.. But I'm saying this because one has to be first.. Priority should go to the one that'd please LFS players the most. Such a model improvised from the best traits of all muscle cars (rather than sticking to a narrow period/model range) also gives Scavier the best opportunity to flex their car design muscle.
It's really about satisfying a particular staple of motorsports, the same way the mini and Porsche and caterham, etc, all were.... An off the wall idea.. The Alfa Romeo 8C could probably be a valid alternative to an American/Aussie muscle car.. Though it would 'cannibalize' on the appeal of including a typical italian exotic (or something typicaly italian) and on the appeal of typical US/AU muscle car's handling character.. And LFS would really benefit from that
ANyway I don't think Scavier would go for copying just one car unless it had really made its niche, made its path for a long long time in motorsports, like the 911 did. The 8C's probably not going to be around much longer than e.g. the Testarossa. Whereas the 911, muscle cars, or caterham-like designs have and will for some time yet.Anyway.. One way or another, LFS has yet to get a big meaty engine. Offsetting such an engine would most naturaly be by handicapping handling performance, which is as good as saying "muscle car". There.. now we're back to square one
Sounds good to me
As I said originally - LFS already has a V8 engine model so it'd be nice if it was used elsewhere.
And hey, just because a car gets added doesn't mean everyone has to use it. If people don't like the way it handles they're welcome to drive something else
As I said originally - LFS already has a V8 engine model so it'd be nice if it was used elsewhere.
And hey, just because a car gets added doesn't mean everyone has to use it. If people don't like the way it handles they're welcome to drive something else
Well yeah, in that formula race car.. I mean for the road cars and a GTR model (it would suck to get such a road car but not a beastly GTR version!).
I agree that not everyone has to use it, but that also means there'd be that much less potential users added to LFS. I can't see a good enough reason to risk that for the benefit of niche players like you and me. I think we can be satisfied enough with a modern retro-styled and more capable suspension muscle car, and every other player can cut their teeth on such a beginner model. It would still shred tires and breathe fire and (Scawen allowing :P) would sound the part too, which is most of what we're after.
My alcohol fueled 2c (been a rough month at work)..
I agree that not everyone has to use it, but that also means there'd be that much less potential users added to LFS. I can't see a good enough reason to risk that for the benefit of niche players like you and me. I think we can be satisfied enough with a modern retro-styled and more capable suspension muscle car, and every other player can cut their teeth on such a beginner model. It would still shred tires and breathe fire and (Scawen allowing :P) would sound the part too, which is most of what we're after.
My alcohol fueled 2c (been a rough month at work)..
no offense - but did you do a market research?
and basically it's always better to get a new car that some people do not like than have NO new car or something that is very similar to one of the others. at least a muscle car would add something new.
No, I haven't. But the evidence is pretty obvious. At the very least, there's a mistaken assumption that american muscle cars are disqualified from fun/competitiveness in a setting such as LFS because of their handling. It doesn't have to be that way... The borderline case would be a pretty vintage model (big engine, boat handling) but with aftermarket parts. That would skirt the standard of 'stock' road cars in LFS so far, but it would be fun enough and (if tweaked correctly) would probably fit very well with the LRF class. It wouldn't be completely un-authentic either, that sort of setup is what most hot-rodded factory cars/homebuilts are like.. You see them in the streets of the USA (tho less commonly nowadays) pretty regularly.
What I meant by what you quoted is that if we are getting only one car of this type (can't see any reason why we'd get more than one), and if it's going to be the only one for a while (same; there's lots of other types of cars just as worth having asap), then it has to be as good as it can be. "Good" in this case means some compromise between character (authentic = immersive), fun, good performance (e.g. not scattered over the laptime chart as e.g. here), and doesn't cater to a smaller (hardcore) rather than bigger (casual, not particularily enthusiast motorsports fans/games) slice of LFS players (current and potential).
For those reasons, I made the case that such a car ought to be a synthesis of old and new as you can read above...
What I meant by what you quoted is that if we are getting only one car of this type (can't see any reason why we'd get more than one), and if it's going to be the only one for a while (same; there's lots of other types of cars just as worth having asap), then it has to be as good as it can be. "Good" in this case means some compromise between character (authentic = immersive), fun, good performance (e.g. not scattered over the laptime chart as e.g. here), and doesn't cater to a smaller (hardcore) rather than bigger (casual, not particularily enthusiast motorsports fans/games) slice of LFS players (current and potential).
For those reasons, I made the case that such a car ought to be a synthesis of old and new as you can read above...
American Muscle
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