Quote from JJ72 :

Too bad I ain't going to the singapore race, or else I will hold up a big F**K FIA SIGN with pink neon.

then they'd F ur bottom with the Max Mosley style "punishment" through... lol

I think those Singaporians still like to rip people bottoms for small offences~?

Quote from Shotglass :

no idea
i only watch gp2 if the brilliant english eurosports guys are commenting
race 1 or 2 btw? ill see if i can find a german or english non itv tv rip



hamilton was already very much off before kimi was alongside him



i disagree (images from the video jb kindly provided... yes i know its badly interlaced)
1. shows hamilton already being pretty much off track before kimi has any overlap at all
2. you can tell from the transition between those 2 pics (iirs 4 frames between them) that haimlton went fully outside the white lines and thus off on his own
3. the last we see of him with with kimi going by very fast and lots of tarmac runoff still left

not sure what the regulations say but it could go either way for kimi either passing a car causing a yellow or kimi passing hamilton under yellow



the only consistent thing about the fia decisions is inconsistency



well tbh that deserves a penalty on the grounds of stupidity and incompetence



you can see a yellow flag waving on the tv footage... but its only visible when the drivers are already right next to it this making it impossible to see for them
you cant tell whether or not it was waving when they had a chance to see the flag though



i think youll change your view after looking at the screen grabs

wow we're even arguing about when Lewis and Kimi came across that recovering Williams~? lol I thought that was nothing compared to all the post race stuff handed out this weekend, in both F1 and GP2... lol

at that point of the track yup it was a tarmac run off, but slightly beyond it was grass...

and agree to the point about the only consistency in FIA is their inconsistency~!

Quote from Becky Rose :

What did non-bias commentators make of the Bruno Senna incident this weekend?

No idea, i could not watch Premiere this weekend.
But Niki Lauda , Danner and the other commentator said about Hamiltons manouver, that it was nothing. As many people state.

PS: I would not mind the decision, if they would not be that selective. One time they say: ah, that was nothing, next time: pfui, dont do that, we fine you with your salary for raising your finger, and then sometimes that hard.
I mean they now have the same stewards everywhere, do they take special mentalities each time in different countries when they eat the national foods?

Quote from GabbO :

No idea, i could not watch Premiere this weekend.
But Niki Lauda , Danner and the other commentator said about Hamiltons manouver, that it was nothing. As many people state.

PS: I would not mind the decision, if they would not be that selective. One time they say: ah, that was nothing, next time: pfui, dont do that, we fine you with your salary for raising your finger, and then sometimes that hard.
I mean they now have the same stewards now ewerywhere, do they take special mentalities each time in different countries when they eat the national foods?

the Belgian wraffle....
perhaps I shouldn't try any from now on... lol

Quote from Gunn :

This happens all the time in F1. Nothing to do with Schumacher.


The decision was made because the pole position was at a disadvantage. Nothing to do with the driver, any driver could have had the same request granted.

This happens all the time in F1 and almost nobody gets penalised for it. When a penalty is usually handed out it would be a fine. Sutil's race was of course not compromised at all.


The track was wet. Did Ferrari and the FAI hose it down so that Kimi could crash thereby proving beyond all doubt that there is a crazy conspiracy at play?

He wasn't forced to cut the corner, he was forced to yield, which he did too late. Then he took up off the road and gained plenty of momentum before letting the Ferrari past. It was deemed that he gained an advantage from cutting the corner, which he did. That's the rules.
If you think that somehow Kimi was wrong to drive like that, you might want to watch a few of Hamilton's races first.

If there's a job going with the British Press, you should definitely apply.

You sir, are 100% correct!

+1
+1
+1

Quote :

I mean they now have the same stewards everywhere, do they take special mentalities each time in different countries when they eat the national foods?

They did away with the impartial guy at the end of last season, they now use 3 local track marshalls overseen by Max Moseley's right hand man, Allan Donnelly, who has business links with Ferrari, Formula 1 Group, and is a European Parliamentary minister and therefore not corrupt. Previously exposed for money laundering over 10m Euro's out of F1 he launched a libel case against the press and won £10,000 on the grounds the magazine could not prove that marshalling a race did not cost over a million Euro's. He was also connected to the F1/Labour funding scandal.

I'm sure he's completely non biased.

Quote from keiran :

...

I fully agree with that post... Right on.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

You should apply for a position in the British government with logic like yours, how do you gain momentum by lifting on a straight and having a 6mph deficit as a result going into the next turn?

Slowing down = gaining momentum

You're missing the entire point. If Hamilton had been forced to make the corner (which he needed to to prevent cutting the track), then he would have had to brake, turn, slot in behind Kimi, and negotiate the corner. By this point, Kimi would have been, maybe, 10 car lengths down the straight, and at a distinct speed advantage. Hamilton cut the track, prevented himself from losing this speed (which was gained momentum over what he would have suffered to stay on-track) and used it to keep in contention and pass Kimi into T1.

As for the whole "he was 6kph slower" crap, that's a moot point. I walk faster than 6kph, and the slightest moment in Kimi's slipstream would have pretty much negated that. And, in light of the above, it's not even a slipstream he should have had.

As for the "passing under yellows" incident - you're all grasping at straws. Hamilton left the track. He, therefore, was not 'passed under yellows', as he was not on the track at the time. Similarly, rejoining the track is the sole responsibility of the person rejoining not the people on the track already. This isn't a motorway slip-road... Of course, this is all presuming that they could even see the yellow flag - after all, the Williams had only spun seconds before they arrived at the corner.

^ da guy above is fully right

Right on James.

Quote from JamesF1 :

You're missing the entire point. If Hamilton had been forced to make the corner (which he needed to to prevent cutting the track), then he would have had to brake, turn, slot in behind Kimi, and negotiate the corner. By this point, Kimi would have been, maybe, 10 car lengths down the straight, and at a distinct speed advantage. Hamilton cut the track, prevented himself from losing this speed (which was gained momentum over what he would have suffered to stay on-track) and used it to keep in contention and pass Kimi into T1.

There's no way of knowing how far behind Lewis would have been had he not cut the chicane, and you cannot punish drivers on hypothetical evidence alone. You can only judge on what did happen, not what might have happened.

Kimi might have turned around, driven into the pitlane and run over Ron Dennis for all we know, but you can't punish him for it because it didn't happen.

Anyway, regardless of what people think, this decision is very, very bad for F1. The decision to change a championship result should only be made in circumstances where the rules have been clearly broken - let's say beyond reasonable doubt - and no matter how anybody feels about it, that's certainly not the case here.

Quote from keiran :

I'm in two minds about the penalty, ruins what was otherwise a great race. Hamilton clearly gains an advantage and was not forced off the track, he drove himself off the road. Did anything stop him backing out and sloting behind Kimi? Probably the knowledge he'd lose a lot of time in doing so, if that was gravel he'd never have even tried hanging on. Remember the difference guys, if you decide to do the walk of death around the outside you will always drive yourself off the track. Kimi's move into the first corner was hard but fair, he moved once to defend and then back to the racing line. Perfectly legit.

Hamilton on the other hand was weaving down the straight to stop the rocket slipstreaming him down the straight. Not the first time he has done that either...

Also whoever it was claiming Kimi overtook under yellows, get a grip. Hamilton was off the track, what was he supposed to do? The rule of overtaking under yellow is where a driver deliberately takes a place by fighting for it on track. I bet the yellows weren't even waving when the two of them entered that sector.

Gutted for Kimi, a class drive all out the window with 3 laps left. Was cheering for Alonso, was hoping he could get in there!

i was waiting for a similar comment after I started reading the thread, shame it took so long (some people do seem to be blindfolded here). good post.

Regarding the supposedly yellow flag incident with the williams. Hamilton messed up the turn, got far off from the apex and slid off the track. You guys really believe he did that on purpose to avoid the williams car? That`s nonsense. Had he braked earlier he would have made the inside of the turn just fine passing the williams round the outside of the next left hander. Kimi didn`t get off the track there because he saw hamilton running wide and braked earlier. Nobody would wait for a car that is off the track, why should kimi?

Quote from Becky Rose :

What did non-bias commentators make of the Bruno Senna incident this weekend?

the premiere guys reacted in the spirit of the fia... first of course glad that nothing bad happened
and then one of the commentators asked the other if it might be better for the viewers if the fia ignores the incident and keeps the race and the championship exciting

personally i think bruno should not have been punished... he didnt do anything wrong after all
the lollypop guy on the other hand who as you can clearly see didnt even look down the pitlane when he released bruno shoudl recieve death by lollypop flogging


btw heres a replay of the rosberg incident from itv... and as you can see kimi wasnt the only one who went off in pouhon
http://rapidshare.de/files/40423181/itvreplay.avi.html
also you can clearly hear how much of a cock hamilton is

Quote from Shotglass :

http://rapidshare.de/files/40423181/itvreplay.avi.html[/url]

That's what I'm talking about guys, that's what I'm talking about! Arrrrgghhhh :vomit:

Quote from durbster :

You can only judge on what did happen, not what might have happened.

Okay then, Lewis cut the corner, gained an advantage, and was penalised. Sorted. Simple physics will give you that fact. Stop moaning.

Quote :

Anyway, regardless of what people think, this decision is very, very bad for F1.

I fail to see how so.

Quote :

The decision to change a championship result should only be made in circumstances where the rules have been clearly broken - let's say beyond reasonable doubt - and no matter how anybody feels about it, that's certainly not the case here.

You do like saying "regardless of what people think"-esque comments, don't you? No matter which way you look at it, driving in a straight line is always going to be quicker than going around a corner and braking.

You're one of these folks who argues with the TV set, aren't you?

Quote from JamesF1 :

Okay then, Lewis cut the corner, gained an advantage, and was penalised. Sorted. Simple physics will give you that fact. Stop moaning.

He was ahead of Kimi as they exited the chicane, then he was behind Kimi when they reached the braking zone. That's called gaining an advantage is it?

Quote from JamesF1 :

I fail to see how so.

It is bad for F1 because every sport should be decided on the field of play by its participants, not in a meeting room by unaccountable stewards of dubious impartiality.

Quote from JamesF1 :

You do like saying "regardless of what people think"-esque comments, don't you?

I do. They're commonly referred as "facts".

http://www.lfsforum.net/attach ... id=46717&d=1199700891

Here's the leaked car photo which ferrari will be using next year.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

...a few recent ones.

-Massa gets pole position in Valencia, complains that he wanted to be on the clean side of the track, entire grid is repainted over night moving Massa to the clean side of the track.

They also moved it for the earlier GP2 race. It was just common sense really.

Lets face it, the fact McLaren are allowed anywhere near the F1 circus this year makes my stomach turn. They should have had a 1-3 yr ban in competing and personally I'd be happy if they never won a race again.

The lowest of the low, even Alonso saw thru' that

Quote from Rdcranno :

the gp2 incident involving bruno senna

Yea, i was watching it live, that was a hash penalty.
Massa did the same in Valencia, and didn't get a shit.
I think they gave Hamilton a penalty because then they will have more battling it the championship.

edit: waiting for source

I felt sorry for Lewis, he did very well to drive that well in that weather, avoids causing an incident , lets Kimi passed (not in time but he still passed) and then put in a wonderful overtaking manouver.

Kinda O/T. What happened for that Williams to end up in the middle of the track?

Quote from durbster :

He was ahead of Kimi as they exited the chicane, then he was behind Kimi when they reached the braking zone. That's called gaining an advantage is it?

Seems as though you didn't read my initial post after all.

Quote :

It is bad for F1 because every sport should be decided on the field of play by its participants, not in a meeting room by unaccountable stewards of dubious impartiality.

Free-for-all, anyone? Stewards settle 'disagreements' (for want of a better term) between participants. Who would you have them be accountable to? Another group of people who aren't accountable to anyone?

Quote :

I do. They're commonly referred as "facts".

Facts are required to be true - speculation is not fact. (And before you throw down my 'maybe, 10 car lengths' back at me, note the use of the word 'maybe').

Quote from HVS5b :

Lets face it, the fact McLaren are allowed anywhere near the F1 circus this year makes my stomach turn. They should have had a 1-3 yr ban in competing and personally I'd be happy if they never won a race again.

Spiteful much? Let's not get started on Ferrari's record of 'cheating'.

Quote :

The lowest of the low, even Alonso saw thru' that

Alonso was in receipt of some of this information, willingly, from Pedro da la Rosa (as found by the FIA hearing)... he saw it, that's for certain Not only that, he was scared off by a rookie! Amazing.

Quote from pacesetter :

Kinda O/T. What happened for that Williams to end up in the middle of the track?

It spun in the wet on turn in.

ok thanks,

Lauda just nailed this hall thing with his speech, especially " I've always said this is bulls**t, that this is a sport and you have to be neutral, but the decision yesterday makes me believe that everyone is watching Ferrari in a positive way and McLaren in a very negative way."

golden sentence