Quote from GrIp DrIvEr :

Oh, im sorry. I couldn't understand you when you said Corvettes suck.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/ ... top_gear_corvette_c6_z06/

he says its uncomfortable, but yet look how old Jeremy Clarkson is.

The sportier Corvette models are very good cars, they are built very badly though. Using Top Gear as a source for a serious assessment of a car is silly, particularly getting Clarkson's opinion on the 'handling' by doing a few uncontrolled powerslides on an airfield.

The video you should have linked to is this, genuinely impressive, but not the soft commonly seen variant.

Quote from dougie-lampkin :

ANYWAYS, the majority of the worlds best handling cars come from EU/Japan. Lotus Elise, Audi R8, BMW M3, Nissan GT-R, 911 (all of em really) and arguably the Mini. What does US have? The 'Vette and Viper? ROFL.

The Elise and the 911 are the only decent sportscars on that list, because like the Corvette they compromise luxury to stick to their goal of being very capable sportscars. The other 3 are all pretty dull and weigh far too much, and to add insult to injury won't even let you drive the car. If you ever saw the amount of crap that came out of an M3 road car (even a CSL) you'd soon understand why in standard form it really can't be described as anything other than what it is: an overweight, but very well setup and balanced, coupe that doesn't make compromises for performance.

Quote :

Also, the majority of the world's best racetracks are outside of the US. Mainly because Americans seem to be fascinated by a flock of cars turning left for several hours, ruining their ratio of good tracks:shite tracks. I can actually do that in our back garden too, with a brick (And it would use 7,000,000% less petrol. Or "gas" in this case.)

Now here is where you don't have a clue what you're talking about. North America has some of the best race tracks in the world, mainy far better than typical European tracks (especially Ireland's offering). To name a few at the top of my head:

Lime Rock Park
Laguna Seca
Mid Ohio
Mosport
Riverside (disused)
Virginia
Road America
Road Atlanta
St Jovite (Mount Tremblant)
Watkins Glen
Sears Point
Sebring

If half of those circuits were in Europe they would probably be considered on a similar level to Spa, because they're American you probably haven't heard of them or have immediately dismissed them, of course none of them are a touch on Mondello Park

Mondello is a sh*thole. Quite literally. It's Ireland's only international racetrack (that I know of anyway. Maybe we have a hidden one somewhere else :shrug. I never said Ireland has any good tracks, in fact quite the opposite. I think I've made one post on these forums about Mondello, and I don't remember saying that it's brilliant.

What I said was the ratio. If there's a few hundred ovals (I'm sure there must be, it's like America's national sport), and 20 good tracks, that's not a very good ratio. Compared to Europe's significant lack of ovals, versus the good tracks. No I'm not going to list them out, because I haven't memorised every track in the world. FTR I have heard of most of those tracks. Some I haven't, but again, I haven't memorised lists of tracks

The R8 was also judged to be the best performer from that list. The M3 I'll agree is bloatware (possibly the Norton equivalent in the motor industry). The Mini obviously isn't in the same class as the others, but for it's size, it has immense handling abilities.

You have to try quite hard to deny the US has a very strong line up of race tracks, don't you? Europe has plenty of ovals to, for banger racing, speedway, velodromes, dogs, horses, you don't consider them to pollute the ratio of good tracks do you? North America actually has a lot more very good club circuits, that I haven't gone into, all it really lacks is density of tracks but that is because it is such a huge place. In comparison Europe has a lot of good circuits (and some real dogs) in the UK, quite a few in France and then just a handful in the rest of the continent.

Quote from ajp71 :

To name a few at the top of my head:

Lime Rock Park
Laguna Seca
Mid Ohio
Mosport
Riverside (disused)
Virginia
Road America
Road Atlanta
St Jovite (Mount Tremblant)
Watkins Glen
Sears Point
Sebring

If half of those circuits were in Europe they would probably be considered on a similar level to Spa, because they're American you probably haven't heard of them or have immediately dismissed them, of course none of them are a touch on Mondello Park

Riverside ought to be dropped from the list. Its condition is worse than 'disused'. There are houses and businesses over top of the old track.

As a replacement, I offer New Jersey Motorsports Park. It was financed and designed by the people that revived VIR a few years ago. The facility has two awesome tracks.

Also, many ovals also have road course configurations (Lowes, Daytona, New Hampshire, Pocono, California, Phoenix, Texas, Texas World, Pikes Peak, Homestead-Miami, need I go on?).

Calling North America's road course offering 'weak' would be crazy. There are dozens of other tracks in current use that could be named.

http://www.trackpedia.com/wiki/Main_Page <--Gives an idea of what North America's road course racing is about.

Fine. Europe wins. I give great respect to Europeans cars now. Anyway, S2 Licensed users. What car is this? hmm... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKA9HbhSr4U
I've watched other youtube videos on this car, so I know what it is. You can make and download cars for this game. Apparently, its a download, or he made it. He did good. the game is called Trackmania nations forever. I've got to say, throw boring realism overboard (maybe not LFS). The one I want of this is Trackmania Sunrise. well, im done. enjoy the vid. congrats europe!

OP, you sound like a typical Youtube American car die hard fan and about your videos, I can't really see how posting street races and a review done by Jeremy Clarkson will help the American car's image. Posting videos of the Dodge Viper ACR and Chevrolet ZR1 doing faster laps then cars twice as expensive around Nurburgring might help. I also don't see what's with this "The Americans don't have normal tracks and they are all Nascar nuts" thing. Nascar might not be a very popular motorsport outside the U.S and A but it still is a motorsport. You need courage, skills, a driving line and a good pit strategy so it's a motorsport in the same way F1 is. Americans have decent and great tracks that have right turns, but I don't need to discuss that matter because someone above has already done it.

Why does it matter? The EU, Japan and the US can all make decent cars and presumably if a driver gets used to driving it, they can be competitive anywhere. Likewise, if I was to drive any of them I'd get pounded by cars from all three.

Why does this always have to turn into a EU/Japan/US d*ck-waving contest?

I don't care which car can do a 7-sec 1/4 mile. I don't care if it can corner easily at 5Gs. I don't care if it can do 0-60 in 1.5s (although I'd watch a YouTube vid).
What I do care about is fun racing with a field made up of a lot of different styles. If that's a 911 fighting a C06 then great. If that's a Viper fighting an STI then great. If that's a bloody Lada fighting a Lambo then even better.

You all have your opinions, stop trying to force other people to agree with you. Appreciate that just because you don't like something doesn't mean someone else can't love it to death. The world would be a boring place if everyone was the same.

Quote from Dajmin :

blah blah blah

Lada ftw.

With american 4x4's the jeep wrangler for example they have this trail rating thing then on this youtube vid i saw a kia sorento which is like half the price made it up a slope the jeep didn't. Yes i said a kia (south korean) so :P to jeep lovers

Quote from Luke.S :

Lada ftw.

With american 4x4's the jeep wrangler for example they have this trail rating thing then on this youtube vid i saw a kia sorento which is like half the price made it up a slope the jeep didn't. Yes i said a kia (south korean) so :P to jeep lovers

Which means what exactly about the capability of a vehicle? A soft roader should be able to out perform a top heavy tough 4x4 up an incline in the right conditions. That doesn't mean to say that it'll make a decent off roader or be any good at dealing with the kind of obstacles that proper off road vehicles are built for.

Quote from Luke.S :

Lada ftw.

With american 4x4's the jeep wrangler for example they have this trail rating thing then on this youtube vid i saw a kia sorento which is like half the price made it up a slope the jeep didn't. Yes i said a kia (south korean) so :P to jeep lovers

You well my Proton will beat your Dad's Rio anytime.

MALAYSIAN POWA!

</postingrandomshitinthreadsihavenoclueabout>

OP, I'm American and I understand and accept that our cars suck. I think its about time to face reality. Having said that though. . . what has been said about jeeps above may be true in some instances, and I'm not saying that the jeep is the best option, but we've been some impressive places in a rented jeep out in the San Juan mountain range in Colorado (probably one of the only places that that you can still rent a manual in the US, which we did). Low range, a high torque engine, and scrape panels can get you some impressive places.

I'll bet my Land Rover does pretty well, too. Screw national origin. It's not like cars are exclusive to their home country. I do have an American and a British vehicle, but I'd buy whatever fits my needs. I'll wave my flag when the need is there, but a car is a tool to get a job done (commute, race, work, recreation, whatever).

Quote from Maukkade :

What if they have to turn right ?

Can streetrace kids do that

NO THEY CANT

Quote from speed1 :

I'm not saying that the jeep is the best option

Of course not. That's because the Unimog is the best option!

Quote from wheel4hummer :

Of course not. That's because the Unimog is the best option!

Too complicated and fancy means failure.

Kraz 255 for the win.

Quote from wheel4hummer :

Of course not. That's because the Unimog is the best option!

Sure, it probably can do some extreme things, but you are over looking the fact that it is a very large vehicle. This is not my picture, but it is a picture of the alpine loop (and I know that many other off road trails are similar in the respect that they are all narrow). This is a picture from a fairly wide spot that dosnt have a rock wall to one side and a 300 foot drop to the other but it gives you an idea of why a large vehicle is not always the best option. http://img.groundspeak.com/way ... 2a6-9717-0998f8970000.jpg

Hilux FTW