With the XRT on Blackwood track I was strugling to get into the 28's, eventually with some gearing tweaking and swearing a finaly got into the low 28's, saved the reply and in lfs world when uploading I noticed some people did 23's with steering and pedals???
View the reply, that car was carrying a lot of speed while oversteering, being a person that does real circuit racing these laps look unrealistic, for me to get into the 23's I would have to be more the drift king than the stig. Including drive train damage element into this game should fix this
I am aware that trial braking can shave off seconds but this is ridiculous, low 26's max.
Yes, some people are extremely fast in the XRT. They can hold the car right on the limit for long periods of time, and the WR laps are good examples of what an XRT looks like on the limit. Quite a lot of oversteer is evidently what is quickest. Of course you don't have the danger of dying in LFS, so the driving tends to be braver and more spectacular than what you'd typically see in real life racing.
So your suggestion is to incorporate drivetrain damage into the sim? What would that achieve? What does that have to do with driving the XRT quickly?
I too feel that the cars seem to go faster when their the tyres past their limit. It's most apparent when you try to accelerate from 0. If you try to control your throttle and make the tires "chirp", you get roughly a 5 second 0-60 mph time in a RAC. If you make the tires "scream" and use a lot more throttle with less control, you can get a 0-60 time of 4.2 seconds on a RAC (LFSLapper doesn't lie). I also thought it was weird that WR holders of the Blackwood XRT time slid so much.
If I remember correctly, there was a post that said the tyres have "too much grip at high slip angles and too little grip at low slip angles" in the Patch Z disscussion forum in the General Discussion area. I'll try to find it if I have more time.
Afaik, drifting has originally been invented to increase laptimes (or to be faster than others during a race)
And since the T1 at BL has camber, its not even a bad idea for hotlapping.
Yah i never drive the XRT and got a 24.6 It just takes time to adapt to it, i think the main reason im ont faster than that is because 1. I suck 2. I can't drive turbo cars as when im braking and turn in and back on the throttle i get turbo lag and i don't have a clue how to keep the turbo spinning at a decent speed.
In many cases a powerslide is a quicker way through a corner, you should know this. That's why it's done in rallying - including tarmac rally. The flip side is increased wear and heat on the tires. Sliding works for a hot lap because of how short it is. You wouldn't do that in a race, though, or you'd lose your tires.
I haven't watched any of the WR replays, nor do I care to, and it may be quite possible that the slide angle is not conducive to faster lap times IRL, and there is an irregularity in the tire physics modeling. Notwithstanding, sliding does not automatically equal slower. You should know this, being a racer and all...
Think of the XRT as an 80s sports car with crappy tyres and sideways is not such an unrealistic way to drive it. "Sideways" is a bit of an exaggeration, though, to be fast you may not be steering positively all the time, but the car remains fairly neutral, like pretty much every car.
XRT is like is a less powerful but also less grippy version of a Sierra RS500 touring car.
Not that the tyres are perfect, naturally. I certainly don't think they're wrong purely on the basis of the way you have to drive XRT to be fast, though.
What I would say about your lap (don't take it personally I'm probably the same ):
You're lines aren't very good, press 4 to see the displayed line, good to start with (but don't try and follow it as you drive it is counter productive).
Commit to applying throttle, if you have to lift you're applying it too late, the best lap in most cars requires constant full throttle or full brake for most of the lap. Having to lift off after applying either pedal normally means you're too early in applying it in the first place.
Apply less, smoother steering inputs. Ignore anybody who tells you that you need to be constantly hacking away at the wheel putting in tiny inputs (it is much easier to do this behind the computer than IRL). Especially ignore these people if they start the argument 'Senna did it', you are not Senna and do not possess his car control, and neither do they.
Blip the throttle on downshifts, currently you're lifting off the brake pedal to balance the car, which to state the obvious increased stopping distances.
Turn off steering help and braking help, they're probably partly to blame for some of the jagged inputs and you need to drive the car yourself, you will never be quick with them.
About his lap:
The oversteery bits are really where he is just throwing the car at the track, probably faster but you could never do that reliably and safely enough so even those doing hillclimbs and sprints IRL would never consider such an approach.
He hits every kerb and runs onto every bit of grass that he knows he can, again you don't want to be doing this for anything other than hotlapping.
Locked diffs (like I'm sure he's running) are still too fast in LFS, for conventional cars with independant rear suspension you would never run a fully locked differential in reality, the few examples of this actually being done tend to be either cost saving (Legends and other bike engined cars) or to make something very powerful and otherwise difficult to drive slightly slower but easier to drive for endurance racing (956). Why LFS rewards locked diffs is unclear but I think a lot of it has to do with inadequcies in chassis and LSD modelling.
^^ Im aware that my laps are not great, I havent been playing for almost a year but ill keep those tips in mind, the suspension set up is perfect for the tire being use, shock settings suit the spring rate.
Scatter's post is what I think is occuring.
I own a s15 and have done drift, targa and circuit days and no powerslides is not a faster way through a corner. You follow super lap(time attack japan)? Do you see anyone drifting?
There are some incorrect information in your post its not funny, you comparing rallying to circuit? lol
When someone who has inferno tag says something is easy you need a tanker filled with salt to go with it
The definition of powerslide certainly has a lot variance in it but generally you still want to keep the angles quite small due to the peak slip angles where you get the maximum grip out form the tires. In rallying it is an adventage if you go far beyond that sometimes, especially on very tight turns but it still doesn't mean that drifting is ever even as fast as keeping the slip angles small. Especially because the bigger the slip angles the more you lose momentum and have to use power to accelerate. The biggest benefit of sliding a lot in LFS is defenately on corner entry where you can go in quite big slip angles and still manage to cut down a lot speed by doing that (on purpose on corner entry). But then again it is quite easy to gradually lose grip with LFS' tires, there is not much "bite" in the tires just when they start losing or gaining the grip going into or coming from big slide.
Your setup isn't 'perfect', the rear spring frequency is too low, it should only be about 0.15hz lower than the front otherwise you'll get an understeery car and you probably want a slightly higher front frequency. The car is under damped at the rear as well.
Sliding is faster, especially in cars which don't rely on aerodynamic downforce so aren't adversely affected by yaw. All cars produce peaks in grip at a certain tyre slip angle, this can be over 10 degrees for road tyres. After passing the peak angle the drop off in grip is very slight so even pretty lurid slides can be not a lot slower round low speed corners (where adverse aerodynamic and rolling resistance issues from going sideways are less important) and a lot quicker if otherwise only one end of the car would be near its peak slip angle and therefore producing lots of grip.
Don't use time attack series in any kind of serious discussion about circuit racing, badly prepared, overpowered understeery 4WD cars with silly bodykits and drivers ranging from second rate to comically bad is going to tell you absolutley nothing about what a good driver can do in a well setup low powered RWD car with no downforce.
According to LFS analyser my rebound damping is optimal, bump at 75% both front and rear. Front 2.36Hz and rear 2.03Hz. Were does this .15Hz minimum rule came from.
It would be under damped if the rear spring rate was higher.
These settings are based on my real car (except for sway bar settings), the rear does incorporate anti-squat so the car will behave differently from a video game, also the game does not take caster into account, springs are F7kg/mm R5kg/mm with re-valved bilsteins.
The way that car was sliding looked to be beyond its slip limit and as Scatter posted there is a debate going on about patch Z. I hope in the following patch they relay more on tire physics and implement gearbox damage so shifting fast will cause clutch and gearbox damage while the synchros slow down to engage.
From your post you dont have a clue what time attack is here, overpowered cars with bodykits????? Were are you getting your information from.
Recommended base settings from Bob's setup guide. Using the values from your real car is silly, it has a different wheel base, track, unsprung and sprung mass, weight distribution and different tyres to name a few.
My point exactly, why does this thing (driven by some touring car driver sufficiently insignificant in a series which isn't exactly the pinacle of motorsport for you to not bother mentioning who he is) have a wing, stupidly big front air dam, huge power bulges on the bonnet and a standard interior? Long before the bodywork gets touched the car should be fully stripped and have a full weld in cage to suspension and diff mounts, a properly prepared race car would leave that thing standing.
Yes the wings and body kits are rather excessive for the power outputs being produced, especially for 4WD cars, those cars will be significantly disadvantaged from dragging all that bodykit, look at a typical GT grid, more powerful cars, RWD and no where near as much bodywork.
For a typical coupe under 500bhp and RWD (or more if AWD) only a small front air dam and undertray (or complete flat bottom), diffuser and possibly a rear wing are needed, sills should be left standard, definately don't need downforce producing wheel arches, front winglets or rear bumpers.
Before you even think about putting a wing on it or changing any bodywork (especially if body panels are stripped or replaced) a full weld in rollcage should be put in. A full roll cage has multiple pieces of tube to the suspension turrets and subframes (if permissible within rules) as well as a side crosses, a cross on the main hoop, a cross on the back stays (to suspension turrets), roof bars, prop bars for main hoop to roof on both sides of the car, prop bars between front legs and roof on both sides, a bar going under the dash between the front legs and more. Basically lightness is almost as imperritive as stiffness...
After a full roll cage has been fitted, which I don't think any of those cars had, some of the cars only had a trackday (single) or no side impact bar, I didn't see any with a cross on the back stays and most didn't even seem to have a cross on the hoop. Simply put these are not serious competition cars, they wouldn't even meet the minimum safety requirments for circuit racing in a GT class, and any proper racing team will vastly excede the minium requirements.
After rollcage and chassis prep work has been carried out then the next step in upgrading a race car is suspension work, any car that is going to produce serious downforce should have rose jointed suspension, modified track and geometery (within the limits of the regs). After that things like light weight wheels (not the heavy weight chrome 'tuning' wheels that some of those cars were running). After that some pretty serious dampers.
If all of that has been done then maybe it is just about time to add an air dam and small rear wing, most of those cars don't seem to have taken any of the above steps. In fact I wouldn't be suprised if a lot of them aren't running braided lines and the other little things that the tuning crowd seem to not appreciate which differentiates overpowered soft road cars and proper production racing cars.
I’m aware of that "so the car will behave differently from a video game", wheelbase, weight and distribution are very similar, I don't know about roll center, track and unspring mass. Either way I like my settings and enjoy watching my replays because it looks real. By the way this is me. http://s74.photobucket.com/alb ... ¤t=_AJN6442.jpg
The drivers name is John Boston and its not his car, this event is different to a normal time attack because you have to race with road registered cars and as you are aware depending on country people are limited to what they are allowed to do to their cars. So you dont have a clue what your saying after comments like "badly prepared, overpowered understeery 4WD cars with silly bodykits and drivers ranging from second rate to comically bad is going to tell you absolutley nothing about what a good driver can do in a well setup low powered RWD car with no downforce." The only thing second rate here are your comments, maybe you should learn to ask question instead of assumptions and you still didn't answer my question, were does this .15Hz minimum rule came from? I like to understand things rather than reading rules like a parrot.
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no matter what the topic