This has been there since the days of S1 (FXO vs GTT)... Isn't it time to reward the drivers that take the harder car to drive (rwd) with better times? In S1 times everybody said wait till S2 when new suspension model comes, after the first S2 demo, I hoped that a better tyre model that will make them more equal... This has not happened, on the contrary GTi was given more HP bringing the unequality to the lower class too. You don't see a single GT on the track in demo and now on all tracks except the oval a fwd car is faster than rwd and in my opinion this is just wrong... There is no possibility to make a league with a choosing a car from a class. Everybody just takes GTi or FXO if they are given the choice and I would love to make a league where different cars appear. Is the driver not that experienced he takes the FXO and he doesen't have to worry much about keeping his car on the track, while at the same time the one who has the balls takes the GTT, wrestles with it and is rewarded by better times...
What do you think? I'm I right or completely out?

EDIT> Almost the same thread back on RSC... over 2 years old...

I completely agree with Chaos, in every race in demo, nobody choosed XRG (expect Chaos , because that car is slower and it is harder to control. And when everybody drives the same car, it dont look very well...
In present time, Chaos is organizing LX4 league - where I learned a little bit to drive RWD cars and when that league would not exist, I would be driving FXO(in turbo class), XFG (in XFG/XRG class) forever... because those cars are fastest in-class and easiest to drive...
The only con of FXO now is overheating front wheels, and moreover that can be fixed by good setup...
I wish to see in future versions of LFS weaked FXO, XFG , for example less horsepower or open diff, or something else...
When will be FXO/XRT/RB4 eqal, it will be great look on various cars on start field... and better expierence to drive

I do choose XRG. But only when I'm against XRGs.

Vain

Yes.

Maybe the updated physics will affect this? :

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Maybe the updated physics will affect this? :

Well I hoped for this 2 years ago (see RSC link in my 1st post) and it did not happen... exactly the opposite happend... in S1 the GT was faster than the GTi

i was about to say "i know someone who uses the XRG, its ZT Chaos!" but then i saw you were the poster, and yes, i see what you mean, but then again, i think that the demo should have the XRT removed, and replaced with something that newbs wil find easier to handle!

In OffTopic there was a thread about FWD/RWD/AWD. Some people said there that RWD cars arent done properly in LFS at the moment. IMO is the biggest problem that "oversteery" physics - some time in RWDs is lost in drifts(or in drift avoiding). In FXO you can simply floor the throtte at the Blackwood chicane, in XRT you have to do a liftoff on the exit. I am not skilled in the driving physics too much, but in FWDs you can apply more throtte in the turns, especially on the exits - and that gives you more advantages than understeery behaviour in actual LFS physics.....

Quote from MadCatX :

In FXO you can simply floor the throtte at the Blackwood chicane, in XRT you have to do a liftoff on the exit.

You dont have to, but you have to get your line spot on!

Quote from MadCatX :

In OffTopic there was a thread about FWD/RWD/AWD. Some people said there that RWD cars arent done properly in LFS at the moment. IMO is the biggest problem that "oversteery" physics - some time in RWDs is lost in drifts(or in drift avoiding). In FXO you can simply floor the throtte at the Blackwood chicane, in XRT you have to do a liftoff on the exit. I am not skilled in the driving physics too much, but in FWDs you can apply more throtte in the turns, especially on the exits - and that gives you more advantages than understeery behaviour in actual LFS physics.....

Well, driving the FWDs like that should burn out tires pretty fast. Aiming them and pulling the trigger (understeering the crap out of them) should wreck tires pretty fast. Since the steering / driving forces are split with a RWD car it should inherantly be faster for longer, but a touch harder to drive. I bet this is why the FXO is lighter than the XRT (more than it even should be with the fewer drivetrain components), so that it would be competitive... But they haven't found the proper balance yet.

...but FXO is still faster than XRT (like an XFG is faster than XRG...)
just a few more HP's for XRT can make it competetive to FXO

or making FXO weaker can do it (and front tyres will be less burned)

FXO is still the fastest even with tires reaching color code Red (heh)

Quote from MyBoss :

FXO is still the fastest even with tires reaching color code Red (heh)

Yes, I think it also. Only in longer races(25 laps?) are possible problems with overheated tyres.I have a set for FXO that brings tires to red in 5-6 laps, but after it, i still can drive better times than in XRT

1. gti vs gt
I have a feeling that the power correction for the gti was based on the bl1 times, where the loooong straight made most of the difference for the gt. On the other tracks though, the two cars were pretty close, and although I admit that gt had majority of the wr's , I think that was OK because it was a tad harder to master.

2. fxo vs gtt and rb4
I've got one simple solution (I think): reduce the fxo's tire width. Voila.

Yep, and its much easier to be consistent with the FXO contra the GTT, GTT is one of the hardest cars to drive fast AND consistent. GTT is really hard to just drive fast with to, and in imo only the best can drive that car in long distance races without doing some spinning.

I think the GTT will be a little easier with the new patch, not so weird to drive in low speeds, and better when youre driving on the limit.

Quote from maczo :

reduce the fxo's tire width. Voila.

Yes, that can be a solution, FXO has more grip than RB4, XRT... Got a point Mazco

I wouldn't mind some organized races with only the gt or gtt, since you never see them online and they are actually fun to drive.

Quote from WGooden :

I wouldn't mind some organized races with only the gt or gtt, since you never see them online and they are actually fun to drive.

yup they are, but only a minority of drivers likes them and the rest has no need to even try them since they are slower... and why don't you see them online? because most people (in demo) dont bother bother driving the GT (GTT in demo is another story, since its the only faster car, but on licensed servers where the TBO class is allowed, its almost always FXO), why should they when the gti is faster... i organise races for those without license and they just ignored the GT, maybe drove a few laps but had no motivation to learn it properly...

...exactly

I had a league race with a choice of the GT or GTi. I of course chose the GT, a car that I am very familiar with from S1. I lapped it hard, progressively improving my lap times.
I posted my hotlap for grid position, and I noticed that everybody else drove the GTi and was getting much faster times than me. I am normally mid-pack in this league, but I was near the bottom with the GT.

I broke out the GTi, and after a few laps I had smashed my PB with the GT. I was able to post a time so that I was at my normal mid-pack starting position.

The point of all of this is that I know how to drive the rwd cars. I like rwd cars better. My LX4 time on FE1R is 45.6x. Not too shabby.
But, the GTi is so much faster than the GT, you have to drive it in races that allow both or you will not be competitive.

I also agree with that, i used to race a lot with the gt, but now its not even funny, or doesnt make up the hard time you get driving it right versus lap time against the gti. I Would love to have the gt/gti competion back. Lets hope with this new patch the RWD will be better to drive with.

Quote from _rod_ :

Lets hope with this new patch the RWD will be better to drive with.

well i have hoped for over 2 years now...

Before the GTI improvement, the GT was (iirc) over one second faster than the GTI. Now the GTI is a bit faster... But this was only caused by those weird setups with Hybrid tyres on the rear. If you use normal road tyres on both cars, the times should be equal.
Well, FXO has always been too fast, thats absolutely true.
Also, the RB4 has a strange suspenrion limitation, that makes it jump weirdly on all curbs. GTI has the same problem btw.
Many cars cant even touch the ground with their undertray, which is REALLY silly. Who cares if the tyres go through the Body?

Quote from Chaos :

well i have hoped for over 2 years now...

well it did get alot more fun to race rwd cars once s2 came out imho.

the next patch is supposed to take care of alot of suspension/tire issues.

Quote from Gabkicks :

the next patch is supposed to take care of alot of suspension/tire issues.

the s1 > s2 physics upgrade should have done it, the s2 tyre patch should have done it and yet no results, so i'm a bit sceptical...

Quote from ORION :

Before the GTI improvement, the GT was (iirc) over one second faster than the GTI.

What kind of statement is that? 1 sec faster at FE Club and 1 sec faster at FE Black? I have a hunch you mean Blackwood GP... Am I wrong?