That sounds like absolute rubbish.
That sounds like absolute rubbish.
You've got a better solution?
The three main problems with BTCC and touring car racing in general currently is it costs too much, the cars are too distant from the production cars and the driving standards are non-exsistant. I don't see how making cars faster would help with any of the current issues.
I'm not suggesting make cars faster, In the 90's the cars were the same chassis as the production model, they were just made as fast as the chassis and rules would allow. If the racing rules were as you mentioned the series would just be dominated by 1 car that was the best handling chassis and the most aerodynamic shell to start off with.
Edit : The reason windows aren't glass is because of safety issues afaik.
The whole point of touring car racing is it meant to be production cars going motor racing. It should allow the better road cars to have an advantage on the track, and be a way for manufacturers to show off their road cars to the public. Look back to the 60s/70s when touring cars really were based on production cars, anything could win little or large and the racing was close and clean. Would you really pick current spec touring cars over that?
The reason windows aren't made of glass is because it is heavy, shattering glass isn't a serious safety issue and perspex windows are very expensive.
would a synchro box really work in a race?
Of course they will, I think the Rover 5 speed 'box in my Dad's Morgan +8 was rebuilt after the 11th and 20th seasons of racing, production trials, hillclimbs and autotests. A modern road gearbox should be capable of being abused without any issue, many series require standard gearboxes. Clutches could also realistically be kept standard without issue so long the power output isn't ridiculous. The most likely components to fail would be driveshafts not coping with the torque (there's probably a good case to justify leaving them free on safety grounds for high power front wheel drive cars) and differentials overheating (usually as a result of bad driving).
i meant more in terms of making shifting a hassle... having to wait for the gear to go in etc
I agree with you in principle. But I think the problem BTCC is faced with is that the manufacturers don't see any benefit from competing.
Speed is no longer king, MPG is
Gone are the days of 'win on sunday sell on monday'. There is very little to gain for a car company spending much money on racing. So your concept isn't wrong, it's just the current climate for manufactures isn't really geared towards speed.Of course Seat however have seen there image GROW immensely so there is still something to be gained from a car company investing in racing... to a point, which Seat have now recognised.
The conclusion is that BTCC is pretty much dead as a concept. I do think the way forward would be to go your route, but I fear it wouldn't gain huge success. Probably more than they enjoy now, but still not as much as would be hoped.
I'm a bit confused as to what the issue is? Yes the shifts will take slightly longer with a road gearbox and less aggressive clutch but with some vague rev matching you can go through the gears quickly on a modern road car.
Nonsense. There's a small market for people who actually want green cars, regardless of what they say. A lot of car buyers still want speed and performance (and their car to be a symbol of this) although they won't admit it, by making motor racing 'green' car manufacturers have the perfect marketing platform.
depends on the track i guess but most cars ive driven require double clutching to get down to first quickly
If you use a road ratios (or sensible ratios for a standing start) you will never use first on a track.
I agree with you there Al, Cmon Lada! Show us your colours, White, Blue and Red yea
You are out of your depth here. http://www.worldcarfans.com/90 ... -green-c30-racer-for-stcc Do you see many people in the UK driving these other than because they look funky? If there was enough wanters of a greener car they would be watching STCC and or searching to find something that appealed to them, the fact is, it's only an ethanol mix so it's not green enough anyway, because it isn't electric.
Of course ethanol mixes is complete bullshit, as is bio-diesel and KERS. None of them in any way make motorsport 'green' and have a very limited effect on the environment in road cars, some may be detrimental. What they do do though is keep green people happy and make motorsport soically acceptable. I'm not quite sure what I'm 'out of my depth' on, are you an expert in motorsport product placement? Because it seems to me your making exactly the same point.
The Seats practised two criminal offenses in racing:
- diesel
- front wheel drive
Justice can only be eternal banning from all racetracks!
- diesel
- front wheel drive
Justice can only be eternal banning from all racetracks!
a properly implemented kers (ie not the joke well see in f1 next year) will make a tremendous difference to the cars consumption in city traffic
No, I was just pointing out that greener racing isn't possible unless all cars are electric, or it's just people getting pushed down a hill incased in 2 specially designed alloy wheels welded together.
Anything that can put a stick up matt neal's arse is forgiven.
Oh Hai [
etals:] Ah, a Mattneal hater. Lets make a club.The super touring rules where the bollocks to be honnest!!
I prefered the old RS500's though. What an era that was! 80's turbo power will always rule! Group B rally, Group C sports cars, Turbo F1 motors and turbo touring cars! You will never ever beat that era!
The problem with modern motorsport is that there is far to much dependancey on aero than there is on power.
What made all old cars exciting to watch was that there was more power than grip! That ALWAYS makes for exciting racing.
Get rid of the aero dependencies and you will see more exciting racing. Its fact.
The BTCC needs to also push for a place on BBC sport - rather than ITV ****ing 4 or what ever channel its on now.
I prefered the old RS500's though. What an era that was! 80's turbo power will always rule! Group B rally, Group C sports cars, Turbo F1 motors and turbo touring cars! You will never ever beat that era!
The problem with modern motorsport is that there is far to much dependancey on aero than there is on power.
What made all old cars exciting to watch was that there was more power than grip! That ALWAYS makes for exciting racing.
Get rid of the aero dependencies and you will see more exciting racing. Its fact.
The BTCC needs to also push for a place on BBC sport - rather than ITV ****ing 4 or what ever channel its on now.
And yet F1 manufacturers are spending in total 1-2 billions in a year in a series where engine development is frozen.
Dodge pulled all funding for cars in 01 and the same thing happened. Seat probably wasn't seeing any gains from the vast amount of money thats poured into factory backed teams. IMO why should they. I think Dodge went the right way with providing engineering support for the teams that want it so the manufacturer can focus on doing their job, producing quality cars.
People could say that racing stimulates improvements to design, which is does, but design improvements can only be made so as to fit to the 'rules' which can significantly hamper improvements.
People also could say that running in televised series will boost your sales, I think initially this could be true, but once people know the name this has less of an effect and the money can be better spent targeting their proper audiences most whom don't like racing.
Shame to see them pull out, I doubt they will goto WTCC, but that money can be spent elsewhere with better results IMO.
People could say that racing stimulates improvements to design, which is does, but design improvements can only be made so as to fit to the 'rules' which can significantly hamper improvements.
People also could say that running in televised series will boost your sales, I think initially this could be true, but once people know the name this has less of an effect and the money can be better spent targeting their proper audiences most whom don't like racing.
Shame to see them pull out, I doubt they will goto WTCC, but that money can be spent elsewhere with better results IMO.
With Diesels, probobly gonna get banned though.
Shame they were competitive against petrol engined RWD cars then huh?
True racing is blind to drive type or engine type. Anyone who's doesn't think so isn't a real racing fan. Rules are only put in place for the purposes of safety and competitiveness. If RWD petrol engined etc car drivers can't handle the fact that their favorite car is being whooped on the racetrack by a FWD diesel, that has nothing to do with mixed marque racing. If they don't like it they should stick to watching single marque racing series.
When the rules are biased towards diesel engines? Then it proves nothing, you could make a steam engine win if you tweak the rules enough.
Finaly! couldnt wait
Seat ruins touring car races with there diesels just like alfa romeo did with the areo kit on there 155 back in 1994!
Seat ruins touring car races with there diesels just like alfa romeo did with the areo kit on there 155 back in 1994!
Seat Sport pull out of BTCC
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FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG