Quote from Chaos :

the s1 > s2 physics upgrade should have done it, the s2 tyre patch should have done it and yet no results, so i'm a bit sceptical...

What S2 tire patch was that??

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

What S2 tire patch was that??

if i recall correctly about a month after the first S2 demo was released... i think it had to do something with temperatures on gravel and also some tweak for tarmac...

Did you know the FXO has the widest tyres of the turbo class? Wider tyres = more grip = faster times. Or the FZR being only GTR car without handicap-o-bonus aka turbo. I'm really puzzled why there are such differences within car classes when logic says those kind of features cause nothing but unbalance.

Quote from maczo :

What kind of statement is that? 1 sec faster at FE Club and 1 sec faster at FE Black? I have a hunch you mean Blackwood GP... Am I wrong?

Yea Blackwood
I should have said that sry

Quote from spankmeyer :

Did you know the FXO has the widest tyres of the turbo class? Wider tyres = more grip = faster times. Or the FZR being only GTR car without handicap-o-bonus aka turbo. I'm really puzzled why there are such differences within car classes when logic says those kind of features cause nothing but unbalance.

yup I noticed the wider tyres on the FXO (front and rear same, while the GTT has only the rear tyres that wide), but when playing around with mecanik I found out that is seems that tyre width does not effect grip so much as I think it should (although I might be wrong...)

Well I've said it before, but I'll say it again. I think balancing cars that are fundamentally different for ALL circuits is impossible, and balancing them so it evens out across all circuits is as much down to changing circuits as it is to changing cars. Maybe not a lost cause, but not too far from it if you want cars to be genuinely close and evenly matched.

I would rather see cars made to be entertaining in their own right, not fiddled with and compromised just to give another car a good race on one circuit out of 2 or 3. I'm sure we'd all agree the RB4 could be a lot more fun than it is, and maybe it would get used properly then too, rather than it being constantly the 3rd choice in a "class" for 95% of racers.

Quote from sinbad :

Well I've said it before, but I'll say it again. I think balancing cars that are fundamentally different for ALL circuits is impossible, and balancing them so it evens out across all circuits is as much down to changing circuits as it is to changing cars.....

I don't say make them exactly equal, this is virtually impossible, but now there is not a single track (oval doesn't count) where the rwd IS faster... it's all fwd ownage and that is just not right...

I think weaked FXO about 5HP and only open diff on it will make it eqal to XRT...

Quote from Chaos :

I don't say make them exactly equal, this is virtually impossible, but now there is not a single track (oval doesn't count) where the rwd IS faster... it's all fwd ownage and that is just not right...

Agree.. and problem is, if next patch will be final physics update for S2 stage without possibility to test it before, maybe this fwd ownage will be there for next year too

Quote from eraser_svk :

I think weaked FXO about 5HP and only open diff on it will make it eqal to XRT...

And what about RB4? IMO cars in 1 class should have similar diff constraints..
-?5?hp yes, only open diff no

Quote from Pablo.CZ :

Agree.. and problem is, if next patch will be final physics update for S2 stage without possibility to test it before, maybe this fwd ownage will be there for next year too

And what about RB4? IMO cars in 1 class should have similar diff constraints..
-?5?hp yes, only open diff no

but what it will make we dont know now and i think if it will be way to worst racing, there will be another patch which will make it different again like this month

Quote from PerG :

but what it will make we dont know now and i think if it will be way to worst racing, there will be another patch which will make it different again like this month

physics update = need for deleting all hotlaps => i dont think there will be any other physics updates in near future to balance cars again..

No, changing car specs afterward can suffice if needed.

Quote from ORION :

Yea Blackwood
I should have said that sry

But gt being 1sec faster on BL GP means nothing, because of the long straight, where it gained the most. I remember that in S1 there were a few tracks with gti WR's better than those of the gt. My opinion, but I think many will agree, is that the differences were small enough to consider it fair, because gt is harder to control.
Now there is 1 (ONE) WR by gt better than gti (three if you count oval+oval rev).
My opinion is the change was an overshoot. A big one.

the problem here is when the s2 alpha demo was out people complained that the GTI wasnt able to keep up with the GT at blackwood.

But what people were forgetting is the GTI had never been able to keep up at bw!! when on other tracks they would almost be even in laptimes.

so in effect ~close to eqaul times on blackwood means the GTI will annihilate the GT everywhere else, as BW always used to be the biggest margin.


XRG is my favourite car but i will admit it can't keep up.

i can practice for a few days on a certain circuit until im close to the XRG WR, and at the start beat new people who join the server in GTI's, however within 10 minutes of them going around and settling into the track already they keep up or beat me, its just that much easier to get the GTI upto equal speed.

if i think of S1, the GTI could have used an extra 2hp or something, because they were ALMOST even back then on most configs, now its just been blown out of the water

In the alpha demo, the GTI was absolutely not competive, even a rather slow GT driver could easily win against the GTI world record driver, because the GT was one second or more faster, and additionally it was much faster on the straight.
Effectively the difference was far more than 2 seconds...

As I said before, remove the Hybrid tyres and GTI vs GT is equal again.

TBO is another story

I dont think so...Only removing HYBRID tyres will not make those car competitive... In September 2005, Fabio made about 1,31,9x with XFG, and with NORMAL TYRES in front and back of car...
And 1.31.9x vs. 1.32.37 is still so wide difference to competition...

I think the fixed problem with weird-hybrid tyre setups and decreasing about 4-5HP from GTI should make those car competitive again...

Quote from eraser_svk :

I think the fixed problem with weird-hybrid tyre setups

As has been pointed out before, that is actually quite realistic (unlike every other "exploit").

Quote from Takumi_Project.d :

the problem here is when the s2 alpha demo was out people complained that the GTI wasnt able to keep up with the GT at blackwood.

But what people were forgetting is the GTI had never been able to keep up at bw!! when on other tracks they would almost be even in laptimes.

so in effect ~close to eqaul times on blackwood means the GTI will annihilate the GT everywhere else, as BW always used to be the biggest margin.


XRG is my favourite car but i will admit it can't keep up.

i can practice for a few days on a certain circuit until im close to the XRG WR, and at the start beat new people who join the server in GTI's, however within 10 minutes of them going around and settling into the track already they keep up or beat me, its just that much easier to get the GTI upto equal speed.

if i think of S1, the GTI could have used an extra 2hp or something, because they were ALMOST even back then on most configs, now its just been blown out of the water

i really dislike blackwood as a proving ground, as all of the laptimes are focused on the first sector due to the long straight, secondly i think the XRG should be faster (only slightly) so that on the straight it will be able to slighly out power the XFG, and keep up with the XFG round the twisties