I'm very satisfied with the handling of the GTI.
But i think that most of the other cars slide WAY too much.
It's beyond realistic. Like giving gas, or contra steering has almost no effect at all.
Even at slow speeds you slide and slide and slide..
So please, remove the layer of soap from the asfalt.
Ofcourse there have to be a limit where the cars start sliding, but i just feel that it is odd now.
The traction of the dirt tracks works pretty good.

its called "too many horse-power"

soften the rear suspencion, play with roll-bars and tyre pressures a bit... oversteer disappears just like that (un less you push it)

you have a wheel/pedals, correct?

You're using a keyboard, aren't you?

Im using MS FF2 joystick. With digital gas and brake. It's not optimal, but i do pretty good with the GTI and the formula XR cars. And it's not like i just hold the buttons and hope all goes well. I really try to work and feel them.

Thanks for the advice with rear suspencion, roll-bars and tyre pressures.
I will try to play around with those.

I however still think its a bit off, when a car that slides just keep sliding , even when speed get below 30 km/h., and i hope one the the big priorities for the game developers will be tweaking car physics.

If someone can make, or have, a setup especially made for digital gas and brake, and for a fast car, like FXO GTR,XR GTR, or FZ50 GTR, i would appreciate if they could attach it to a post here.

The digital gas and brake would be contributing to wheelspin which may make adhesion seem less than it really is. You could set your joystick so that pushing forward is throttle and pulling back is brake. That way you get analogue control over these actions, allowing smooth acceleration and braking. I've used this method in older sims and it doesn't take long to get a good feel for it.

Also press f9 and watch your tire temps. If they are red you are going to have much less grip

Buy a wheel you cheapskate...

a LOT of peeps using kbd have complained thta the cars are uncontrollable, in realit it seems that the keyboard 'help's aren't really enough to tame a lot of the cars, you might find that practicing with the RB4 until you've got the hang of it, slowly moving the power to the rear as you improve, one thing tho'. IF YOU REALLY LIKE LFS - BUY A WHEEL! (if you can afford one anyway) even a cheap £5 spring wheel will DOUBLE how much you'll enjoy LFS and there's nothing like STAMPING on the gas (or giving it a little tickle ), the game becomes more like it should be - a simulator.

well the keyboard help was changed becuase wheel users complained lfs drove for them

Which it did. Controlling the cars with the old help was more like playing NFS than LFS. Granted, fast laptimes were also hard to get, but the redicolous amount of help would let you zoom over kerbs full throttle with the most uncontrollable (atleast for wheel users) cars we had back then (LX6 comes to mind). You could also drift for ages, no matter if on mud or tarmac just with the press of two buttons because of the perfect counter steer the computer did for you. Maybe it was fun, but skill wasn't exactly involved most of the time.

It wasn't you steering the car, it was you telling your autosteer computer in which direction you want to drive. If a simulation is easier to drive with keys than with the wheel, than there's something wrong, and that made Scawen nerf the keyboard help. I think you get the point.

Quote from dUmAsS :

well the keyboard help was changed becuase wheel users complained lfs drove for them

It was changed because KB players were able to set WR lap times compared to wheel times. It was IMPOSSIBLE to lose the back end no matter what you tried to do to the car. LFS is a sim and cars are not controlled with digital controls so wheel or joystick should be faster than wheel.

Quote from Woz :

It was changed because KB players were able to set WR lap times compared to wheel times. It was IMPOSSIBLE to lose the back end no matter what you tried to do to the car. LFS is a sim and cars are not controlled with digital controls so wheel or joystick should be faster than wheel.

Agree , but the game should also be playable for those that use buttons for gas and brakes.
I'm not saying cars should be glued to the road, and sure enough the guys that use analog gas,brake and gears, should have a small advantage.

But it gotta be easier than it is now, when you don't use analog controls.

Quote from Captain K. :

Agree , but the game should also be playable for those that use buttons for gas and brakes.
I'm not saying cars should be glued to the road, and sure enough the guys that use analog gas,brake and gears, should have a small advantage.

But it gotta be easier than it is now, when you don't use analog controls.

At this point in time the physics in LFS are not done. It is important to be very careful with tire cambers and pressure. If the camber is too high, the car gets over commited laterally without much in the way of feedback to you, the driver. The fronts are especially important because when the front get's over commited you can't tell until it's too late. (Sometimes too late is at the very moment you turn the steering wheel.) I understand keyboarding is a chore, but less camber, especially in the front, and less rear pressure will help A LOT!

Quote from Captain K. :

I'm very satisfied with the handling of the GTI.
But i think that most of the other cars slide WAY too much.
It's beyond realistic. Like giving gas, or contra steering has almost no effect at all.
Even at slow speeds you slide and slide and slide..
So please, remove the layer of soap from the asfalt.
Ofcourse there have to be a limit where the cars start sliding, but i just feel that it is odd now.
The traction of the dirt tracks works pretty good.

Yeah. Most of fans don't admit, but when you run in LFS, it looks like you are on racing soap. It's really amazing that the DEVs didn't fix it until now, after almost three years of project. And when you talk about it, you'll always listen the same bullshlt (sic): "we're in alpha stage of S2...". Blah-blah-blah... :rolleyes:

Quote from Captain K. :

Agree , but the game should also be playable for those that use buttons for gas and brakes.
I'm not saying cars should be glued to the road, and sure enough the guys that use analog gas,brake and gears, should have a small advantage.

But it gotta be easier than it is now, when you don't use analog controls.

I disagree. There's no reason that the game should be the least bit playable using a keyboard. Imagine driving your car if you only had no throttle and full throttle. I doubt you'd be able to get to the store and back without crashing, yet people expect to make it around a race track with no problem?

There's NO reason for anyone to be driving without a wheel. My friend just got a used Logitech Driving Force off ebay for $10US. TEN DOLLARS! You can't afford NOT to have a wheel if you expect to play a realistic driving game.

Buy a wheel and download the Easy Race and Road setups for the cars. I guarantee you'll not only have no problem driving the cars, but you'll have the most fun you've ever had with a driving game in your life.

Quote from Cue-Ball :

I disagree. There's no reason that the game should be the least bit playable using a keyboard. Imagine driving your car if you only had no throttle and full throttle. I doubt you'd be able to get to the store and back without crashing, yet people expect to make it around a race track with no problem?

There's NO reason for anyone to be driving without a wheel. My friend just got a used Logitech Driving Force off ebay for $10US. TEN DOLLARS! You can't afford NOT to have a wheel if you expect to play a realistic driving game.

Buy a wheel and download the Easy Race and Road setups for the cars. I guarantee you'll not only have no problem driving the cars, but you'll have the most fun you've ever had with a driving game in your life.

Yep, I agree. But the problem of 'soap racing' remains.

Quote from Delerue :

Yep, I agree. But the problem of 'soap racing' remains.

Have you tried the Easy Race setups or setups borrowed from people who set fast laps? I thought the tire model in LFS sucked until I tried more dialed in setups (not the ones that ship with the game). Now I'm competitive and having fun!

Quote from Cue-Ball :

Have you tried the Easy Race setups or setups borrowed from people who set fast laps? I thought the tire model in LFS sucked until I tried more dialed in setups (not the ones that ship with the game). Now I'm competitive and having fun!

I've tried, but the problem remains. It's really a bug; a really old bug.

Try to stop one car in LFS (GTI, per example), and make a full turn of the wheel, then push throttle until you reach 25 km/h. You'll see a unbelieveable thing: the tires will lose grip.

Quote from Captain K. :

I'm very satisfied with the handling of the GTI.
But i think that most of the other cars slide WAY too much.
It's beyond realistic. Like giving gas, or contra steering has almost no effect at all.
Even at slow speeds you slide and slide and slide..
So please, remove the layer of soap from the asfalt.
Ofcourse there have to be a limit where the cars start sliding, but i just feel that it is odd now.
The traction of the dirt tracks works pretty good.

Urm, there is a major flaw in your post... your driving the GTI on the same "soapy" tracks as the other cars!!!! Obviously there isn't soap on the track or the GTI would be sliding like the others too!

Maybe one of the follow has happened:

1. Someone has hacked your computer and put soap or oil on the tyres of all your LFS cars except the GTI.

2. Your setups in the other cars do not compliment your driving (vice versa), unlike in the GTI.

3. Get in any of the other LFS cars and race against a field of AI GTI drivers... this way the Antisoap GTI tyres clear the track for you and no longer will you be sliding everywhere!



Seriously, I think it comes down to all the stuff other people have mentioned and I am just dribbling useless crap

We can pull over 1g in the road tired cars. Not much soap about that.

Agreed, there ARE issues with the tires, the diffs and the aero model, but the grip in general is there.

Quote from Hoellsen :

We can pull over 1g in the road tired cars. Not much soap about that.

Agreed, there ARE issues with the tires, the diffs and the aero model, but the grip in general is there.

Is there, but is there in wrong way.

Read this:

Try to stop one car in LFS (GTI, per example), and make a full turn of the wheel, then push throttle until you reach 25 km/h. You'll see a unbelieveable thing: the tires will lose grip.

Quote from Delerue :

Is there, but is there in wrong way.

Read this:

Try to stop one car in LFS (GTI, per example), and make a full turn of the wheel, then push throttle until you reach 25 km/h. You'll see a unbelieveable thing: the tires will lose grip.

By full turn of wheel I take it you mean full lock. If so try exactly the same in a real FWD car. The tires will lose grip.

You have to remember that unless you are using a DFP the movements you do with the wheel will have FAR more effect than in real life.

There are issues at low speed with the tires but they are not that far off.

Does anyone actually read other posts here in this forum? How many threads do we need to create complaining about the grip? Now that I've gotten a variety of sets for most of the cars, I never loose grip (ok, I do, but due to driving too hard, not lack of grip). I use to be of the same opinion, but now I know how the cars drive and react to my inputs, know the tracks well enough that I can drive smoothly, and have learned how to feel the cars without the important "butt" feeling you get from driving a real car. I went from having to practically stop around the tight turns at AS National in the FZR to throttling around them without loosing any grip and spinning out. You have to learn to feel the car and know how to modulate the throttle. I have a feeling many who complain about the grip are simply giving way too much throttle. Be it keyboard, mouse, or wheel and pedals, you just don't have as much control of the throttle as you do in an actual car. How many of you have driven an actual race car? Not a street car slightly modified to run on the track, but a real race car with 400+ hp. I knew a guy who had a 450 hp 5.0 Mustang, twin turbo (I know, not a race car). Downshift that thing into 4th at 60-70 mph and guess what happens? You will go sideways, just as you do in LFS. And this is not with the ultra low gearing that is used in LFS, that is with street gearing. In LFS, we have infinite control on gear ratios so they can be completely optimized for the track to define exactly where shift points are for cornering and accelleration. You can't just run to the auto parts store and ask for an exact gear ratio for your car. Try out Bob's road going sets posted elsewhere here and at RSC to see what the cars would run like with a realistic street car setup. Every new thread about grip ends up with this statement in it. Try the road going sets. Just everyone stop creating new threads about the crappy grip. Learn to modulate the throttle to drive the cars instead of mashing the pedal down and wonder why there's no grip.

Quote from mrodgers :

...Learn to modulate the throttle to drive the cars instead of mashing the pedal down and wonder why there's no grip.

You shouldn't assume everyone complaining about grip can't drive. I have no trouble getting round in LFS but I still know there's quite a big problem with the physics.

You are right though, it's been done to death now

I once drove a porsche GT3 (few months ago) on a track : believe me, you won't push the pedal to metal in low gear and you'd better brake BEFORE downshift or you'll learn quickly what gearbox locking (and spinning mean). Ok, this was not really a race car, but 350+HP for this weight and slick tires give me a good approach (also tried a F355 modified for Challenge)
Most people (including me) have driven too many arcade games to think to compare to a real car... As said before, a race car (expecially tuned) has nothing to do with the car you drive everyday (uch, much more BRUTAL behaviour - slicks are really impressive) nor with a pseudo car in an arcade game (where you might oversteer and follow your line with full gas or full brake...)

Subject is close for me... And even if the tyres are a little too slippy (I hate this Fo8...), I see that some expert racers drive them without pb (and 10s pro lap quicker than me - I feel such a lamer) so I understand *I* need to improve rather than harass the dev... Each car is specific, each track is specific and you'll have to be comfortable with all of combinations...

For people finding turbo cars too hard to drive, think to the stupid preparators who modify the engine without changing the shocks or transmission. The car has been designed to be coherent by quite a lot of engineers (including me for some of them which should definitively be a sign of quality 0:-) ), so how the hell could the first "expert in tuning" modify the car? (ok, I'm off subject and angry). I do not hate tuners, I do not hate tunng, I hate idiots, that's different. The problem is that both categories often mix together... (I think I'll be moderated) (I apologize in advance)