Just saw Massa's off-track again. Definitely 4 wheels OFF the track, since the track is defined in F1 as the space between the white lines. He should get at least a drive-thru (read: non-race-threatening €10,00 fine)
True but i've seen thing like that happen dozen and dozen of times and never seen a penalty for it, atleast not if there were no contact between the cars.
Need to see a different angle at the start. I'm completely baffled.. DT for forcing a car wide? I've never heard of that being penalised like that before. What gives??