@ Silver - I have the replays, but can't upload them somewhere just now. I'll do that on Sunday evening or Monday and post a link here (or attachment). Ah, thanks Boost! :-)

@ Neil - It would be great to see you around. I have chosen AS3 as the track for round 4 of FM racing series. It would be our first visit to Aston and this track is not so complicated, I think. Maybe a bit lengthy for FBM, but we race for time and not laps anyway.

@ Everyone

I have compiled detailed table of all people so far taking part in the series, their races, positions, points gained for each position and total poins. It also shows the current standings. You find this table appended and its very short version is available on the racingteam.aa24.net site.

Also appended is the track plan for the season, finally compiled. It consists of 16 tracks, 3 of which we already did. If all goes well, it will end at the beginning of January 2009, just after a short winter holidays pause. You'll no doubt notice it is packed with S2 tracks. We waited for 3 races if someone S1-only capable appears, but as this is not the case, we go to the full possibilities.

I have tried to choose and combine tracks in a way that longer tracks are mixed with shorter ones and that there are always several different tracks before returning to an already visited racing site. I'm sure there'll be some tracks you won't be happy about (either long and boring or short and too hard in your view), but others may see just those as nice, so bear with it or skip that racing evening.

Races will be consolidated into groups of 4. For each player the racing evening with lowest points gained in a group will be ignored. People may thus skip some races, but still need to take part regularly. Real running positions will also be clearly stated after every group of races. Because the season consists of 16 races, there are 4 groups of races with one race in each group being ignored. After the 16th race we'll immediatelly know the winner, time for celebration!

The plan now is to have a short break, say one or two weeks, and then immediatelly start a new season, 3rd one. It will consists of the same tracks in the same order, but in reversed configuration. If all goes according to plan (that is a race EVERY week), then this part will be finished at the end of April or in May. Again, lowest score in every group of 4 races will be deleted. At the end we will have final results of the 3rd season.

If all goes well and the whole series idea would keep on living, we will altogether see 32 racing evenings, each with 2 races. I'll try to keep the series alive, inviting new people when I see some. Your help in this is most welcome, your regular attendance yet more. If I see the series is for some time getting hardly 6 racers, well, that will be the end of it. Plan to enhance the series: Ask Victor to move this thread and all other discussions into a separate folder. He requires the series to be running and to have an associated functional Web site. Thanks to JoRuss we now comply even with the 2nd condition. Then I'll look into possibilities to have a banner displayed in LFS Forum (but this may be automatic for every racing series).

Basically, we're prepared to accept more people, there is a framework for people enlisting themself to races prepared. Also prepared is a mailing list - you'll be probaly getting FBM racing series news and updates right in your mail. JoRuss spent a lot of time prepering the database acpects of the Web site, it is time to try the features up to their full capabilities. BTW, that framework is prepared for other racing series, be it Rally or GTR cars. So, if you have any plans in this respect, you may very well use what is already available. Direct your Airio features requests to me, Web/DB requests to JoRuss. :-)

And one more thing to open again, not for the first time. Day and time of he races. We discussed this several times, not reaching any conclusion. Some people were suggesting Sunday evening is much better but in practice it was a fiasco, clear one at that. Let me just repeat the main limitations: 1) Most players of the series are from Europe, so it must be evening European time, around 21:00 UK time. An hour before that is too soon for some, an hour later is too late for others. 2) For me personally Friday and Saturday evening is out of the question - I would miss half of the races in that case.

Still, if you'd like to take part in the series regularly and Thursday is really an awkward day for you, send me a personal message stating days/times when you can usually race. Come to think of it, it would be nice if I received such a "statement" from everyone already taking part. Maybe Thursday will do for you, but Monday is still better. Let me know, I'll try to compile a table. Example: "Every evening around 21:00 UK time with the exception of Friday, Saturday and Tuesday. I'm usually not able to race then. Sunday evening is best for me, but Thursday is also cool." I'll try to make sense of it all. :-)

Well, thanks for reading and taking part. See you all on Thursday on AS3. I'll be sending PMs again, it paid off the last time. Or there'll be the mailing list.

EQW

One little explaining note to the current points table contained in my previous post: You may be surprised that Martini is on points in race 3/1 even though he did not conduct the S+G penalty (for car reset in last lap) correctly, and that Woozy has some points from race 2/1 even though he did not make a pitstop as required (because of race length confusion). The reason is this: To be on considered as finished, you must make at least 90 percent of the race laps (basically, you can lose 1 lap for each 10 laps of the winner, nothing more).

If you don't finish the race (e.g. because of fuel) or the game reports you as DSQ or DNF for some other reason, you may still be classified and get some points, but you really need the 90 percent of total race laps. Naturally, in these cases you are classified on a place after all that raced properly and finished the race as it is supposed to be done. That's why Martini gets reasonable points for 6th place in race 3/1. From the good racing perspective I see the 90 percent rule as more substantial than some technical troubles with penalties.

Also to give you some incentive to send me (via PM) the days when you are available I append here a table of ideal days. It includes only 2 players at present (thanks, Woozy, for prompt response :-), but hopefully it'll grow fast and we'll see if actually Sunday could be more suitable for the races. Be reasonable in the data you supply though, we may change the racing day once, but that's about it...

cant make next thursday, first race anyhow. I'll be home about 21:30. Band have changed practice to thursday for next week. Not like I'm a contender for the crown anyway . Just watched replay of 2nd race my car was screwed the replay looked like I had square wheels, didn't feel too bad though.

see ya round and around and around.

Hey guys! Great race we had last Thursday and I enjoyed it immensely despite some dumb moves on my side. Well not the first nor the last time that has happend. Anyhows, I took the liberty of recording and processing the last fbm event [+bits and pieces from other racing ocassions] and came up with a movie. Lame as it may be, it does present some quality moves we had on the track. Mind you all, this is my first approach to movie making and with very limited budget this time. Hopefully, you will enjoy the audio track. Looking forward to the next track wrestle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOGfVMArIpw

@ Trix : Pity, try to come at least for race 2. It may start a bit later than 21:30 your time, but not by much... I hope you already know the password we'll use to make the server private...

@ Flano : Right, maybe you wont forget about the next race...

@ Martini : Nice one, I certainly enjoyed the video and the music as well! Good job, thanks for well spent 3 minutes.

Attached is updated "preffered racing day table", I'll be grateful for more entries, be it as simple as JakBot's or as thorough as Martini's. Note that the upcoming race 4 would take place on Thursday as originally planned. If there appear more entries favoring Sunday, it will be race 5 or 6 and the following...

Also, I have already asked Victor to create a subsection for our series (because it runs already and has its Web pages, the two main conditions), let's see what happens and when...

OK, thanks for information.

Just a short summary for all those who do not yet use the main AirAttack FBM Series pages (http://airattackracing.ovh.org/events/FBM/) and are interested in racing:

Track: AS3
Length: 25 minutes plus 1 lap
Date: Thursday, October 2nd, 2008
Qualification: 19:30 UTC (20:30 WET, 21:30 CET, ...)
Race 1: 20:00 UTC
Race 2: 20:30 UTC

See you there!

With race 4 done we have concluded first group of the series races. Three more groups are before us, each with 4 races. Appended is a table of final group 1 results. For each player one race with the lowest score was ignored. It was one of the missed races for most people, only for me and JakBot there were really some points to be erased. You'll find full stats of all races at http://airattackracing.ovh.org/events/FBM/?p=stats.

From the number of people taking part perspective it was not a bad start into the new season. Still, I would hope to have at least 8 people on every race and 10 or more would make me happy. :-) As you probably know, I'm running a poll to select maybe a more suitable racing day. It looks like we have just two candidates - Thursday and Sunday, both 21:00 UK time. If you'd like to race but know for sure you can't do it on any of these days, let me know via PM. Appended is the current poll state.

Right. See you next Thursday on KY2. That's a nice track. I hope the people that could not race this week will be available for the next. We're starting a new group of races and we're still open to newcomers. Sure, they will start with zero points, but nothing is lost. And good races are always a thing to enjoy, be it for points or just for fun.

Oh, good news. As you may have noticed, Victor was so kind and created for this series a special subsection under the leagues node at http://www.lfsforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=224 and that should be your primary source of information. Note that i summarized some information and put it into separate threads.

Generally, I would think this means we moved one step up on the virtual prestige ladder by this. Thanks to everyone who made this possible, all of you taking part in the series, and especially to JoRuss for creating the series (and AirAttack) Web pages including database/management interface!

woot =)

Hi, there!

I come with some questions: In the AA FBM series we finished 4 races and it seems to me (and to other people as well) that some of the principles are too complicated and that they need adjustments. Basically three issues appear:

1) Season length and its stages. The season was supposed to be of 2 stages by 16 races each. Some people object that 16 is too many. (I wonder what they would say to my original ideas about season length - 32 to 40 events, every week until June. ;-)

2) Erasing the worst race results. There are some real racing series with e.g. two worst season results erased for each player. The advantage is that you can miss some races, disadvantage then that it's hard to calculate how many points you need in last races to move up to some position. Currently there is a relatively complicated scheme implemented - it groups races by 4 and deletes one worst of them. Because the season was supposed to contain 16 races, it would mean 4 your worsts races (approx. one each month) will be ignored.

3) Point system. Currently the points are calculated by a formula taking into account not only finish position, but also number of starting people. While this may be a very just system (preferring victory over many people and giving the winner points advantage as well), it is not really transparent enough.

I'd very much like to hear your opinions about these systems and possible changes which follow:

1) It looks reasoanble to have a season with 3 stages by 12 races each. Each stage will have one winner. There may also be an overall season winner declared, but that is still an open matter.

2) Either 2 of the 12 races in each stage could be ignored or every race will count. First option may be more comfortable for players, the second is very transparent. Even if we decide to ignore some races, the calculations just before the stage end may not be as complicated - if someone skipped an event, it is pretty obvious which result(s) will be ignored.

3) Alternative is to use the very simple and obvious point system - 10, 8, 6, etc. In every race first 8 players will get points regardless of the number of people on start. Everyone knows this system and it is the most transparent.

Right, that's all. I hope you won't be mad at me for changing some of the rules/plans in mid-stage, but some ideas that looked nice in theory don't go too well in reality. My current ideal would be to have 3 stages by 12 races and the simple, well known point system. I'm still not sure about ignoring some races, I'd rather say all should count. But I change my views quite often, as you are just experiencing. :-/

Well, your opinions about the above mentioned and other matters is most welcome. Take care and let me know. Note that once the changes are decided, there is no way back.

EQW

PS: Appended are two pictures, each showing two "would-be" tables. One picture shows tables with complex points and with one race igored/all counted. The other shows tables with simple points also with one race igored/all counted. Compare the tables. See how far ahead JakBot already is in the complex points, especially if no race is ignored. See also how close the points are in the simple system, which may not be as objective but allows for more close fights for points/overall positions. See also why I currently think no races should be ignored... :-)

PPS: Ehm, I appended one more table. This one uses the simple point system, but limits maximum number of points by people on start. It means that if less than 8 people race, the winner does not get full 10 points, but some lower value. When 7 people start, winner gets 8 points, with 6 people on start it is 6 points, with 5 people 5 points etc... I think this is still very transparent system solving a possible problem when in a race of three (I hope that never happens) the winner gets full 10 points just as if he defeated whole bunch of other players.

My vote is going to go for the more transparent system you’ve proposed, with all races being counted. Although I would have no major disagreement if we continued as we are, I actually like the format we’re currently running, I would prefer racers have a clearer idea of where they stand in the series.

Our race dates and times may need some revising though. I noticed wOoOzZy put in great effort to be with us for round three, but I don’t think we can expect that kind of commitment if we want to see more racers from across the pond competing. Moving races to the weekend, or mixing Thursdays and Sundays may be a fairer answer.

Other than that, thanks for all the work you’re sticking in EQW, you’re doing a fine job.

Right. From the responses gathered so far it looks most people would welcome the simpler, well known point system 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1. After some discussion it also seems limiting maximum points by start grid size (in case less then 8 people race) is not a good idea for the series. (For current standings see the first appended table.) A bit more open is the matter of ignoring some races, say lowest 2 scores of the 12 races for everyone. Your opinion is still welcome.

Concerning the series day: The only available alternative (replacing Thursday) is Sunday evening. No one who responded so far to my "poll" (see the second appended table) reported troubles with Sunday (well, except Silver for whom it is Monday very, very early morning). Still, I'm not rushing for a day change. Last year it was supposed the rally races will have more people if taking part on Sunday and it was... well... a disaster. I'm still waiting for more responses confirming Sunday as the preferred day.

Couldn't make the race at AS3, sorry about that, but I'll try and make all the others

@ Roby: Sure, that happens. We'll be glad to see you on any of the following races.

@ Everyone: Same to you. :-)

Note that there are two separate threads for Rules and Announcements. Check them up occasionally. We have also a new thread about AA FBM Demo Racing Series, starting soon...

As already hinted, the points were changed to the simple 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 system. Winer always gets 10 points regardless of number of people on start. 2 worst of the 12 stage races will be probably ignored for everyone, but this has not been irrevocably decided yet...

A bit late to join, but thanks for the invite, I'll be there sunday

It is never too late to join some good (hopefully) or at least reasonable :-) races. And once we finish the first 12 races, another round is coming. Thanks for the response!

Looking forward to racing tomorrow. Is it the same time 21:30 for qualy and race at 22:00 UTC?

Thanks,
3rd

Eh, took me some time to send the invitational messages and post the announcement, sorry. But the times you mention, 3rd, are not quite OK. It is 20:30 UTC for qual start and 21:00 UTC for race 1 start... See you there! :-)

Can I participate, too? Even if there are only 3 races to go. I already signed up on the AA website btw.

Rouslan

Quote from Roccivic :

Can I participate, too? Even if there are only 3 races to go. I already signed up on the AA website btw.

Of course! You'll be most welcome. 3 races to go in this stage, but then we move on to another one, altogether still lots of races to do. I'm sending notifications using the LFS forum, so check your messages there. I also post announcements here. Just FYI next track is SO1R, qual start on Sunday 16th, 20:30 UTC (also 20:30 in Ireland, I believe)... Also note that it is probable we'll be doing the following races on Thursdays, if that is not a problem for you.

I've put myself down to join, I've not done any league races before so I wanted to see how I get on with making sure I get all the domestic arrangements sorted out to be on-line at the appropriate time. I think Thursdays and Sundays from 8.30pm are usually both OK for me so it looks positive!

Quote from modelmotorracing :

I've put myself down to join, I've not done any league races before so I wanted to see how I get on with making sure I get all the domestic arrangements sorted out to be on-line at the appropriate time. I think Thursdays and Sundays from 8.30pm are usually both OK for me so it looks positive!

That is great, everyone will no doubt be happy to see you around! This series might be a good entering ground, I think, because we're not dead serious about who wins and such things. The whole point is to spend evening in a community of pleasant people, have a race or two to compare your capabilities and luck on a certain track... and that's it. :-)

Well that was fun, pleased to get a podium finish more by luck than judgment! 25 minutes certainly makes your arms and feet ache though, I should probably visit the gym sometime soon. Hope to be able to get along next week.

That was certainly fun, so I'll be back next week for more
The only thing I'm wondering is, what track is it going to be? EQ_Worry yesterday said KY3, but in the roaster it says FE1...

http://www.lfsforum.net/attach ... id=67941&d=1223541942

Rouslan

It says Kyoto on the AA web site. I'm rubbish at both so it makes little difference