I just found that "über" setup F1RST gave out on the 16h Racing minds page, and opened it in Bob's VHPA. [1. Pic] And it looks so different to my setups.
I think everything is set up oversteery to counter the locked diff.


Am i the only one who likes his sets (at least GTR) more like this? [2. Pic]

It may well be set up to counter the locked diff, but it's generally not about getting everything green...

Aerodynamics, tyres, springs and dampers (in the order of importance I've been told) all define the handling of a car... Dampers are just one little part, you have to take a look at the whole picture, not one little detail...

So you see a perfect set up in a program isnt a perfect setup for everyone,

Altough all green should be a good base, dont forget that you have the fact driving style aswell.

BTW, where can i download this program?

Quote from Rudy van Buren :

BTW, where can i download this program?

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=16961

A neutral car is only perfect doing circles at a steady speed around a skid pad. Everything else is about compromise and a bit of personal preference.

Quote from rcpilot :

A neutral car is only perfect doing circles at a steady speed around a skid pad. Everything else is about compromise and a bit of personal preference.

Indeed.

Personally in FWD cars I like them to have an oversteery balance and after experimenting with setup changes I can steer on the throttle.

In a RWD drive car I prefer a slightly neutral/understeery balance since this is often fastest in a race situation.

Whatever works for one person may not work for you.

Making all those bars green is effectively removing the dampers effects on transients situations, so is not really the best idea as you're removing an extra element of tuning. Also, with bump settings like you're using, it's not going to work as well as it could over bumpy ground.

@ACCAkut: As others have said, your idea of a proper set is flawed. Set the dampers in a way that is comfortable and don't worry too much about what Bob's VHPA program tells you the balance should be in certain conditions.

The main things I use(d) the VHPA for is picking undamped spring frequencies and findng the critical damping value for the dampers (purely as a reference point). Nothing more.

Quote from Forbin :

@ACCAkut: As others have said, your idea of a proper set is flawed. Set the dampers in a way that is comfortable and don't worry too much about what Bob's VHPA program tells you the balance should be in certain conditions.

The main things I use(d) the VHPA for is picking undamped spring frequencies and findng the critical damping value for the dampers (purely as a reference point). Nothing more.

Aye, if anything VHPA's just a great setup aid, but it won't create your setup for you. I use it for things like quickly adjusting a set around a new weight distribution if we're running ballasted so I can test several different weight distributions in minimal time, or for making all relevant adjustments when I need to make a basic adjustment like springs where one change will have an effect on most of your other settings. It's also good for people like me that suck at damper tuning as a visual aid as to 'when I do this, this will happen.'

i haven't used this program, but i do agree that the setup is has ALOT of oversteer for a setup that needs to be comfortable over 16hrs.

I find Bob's VHPA very useful for tuning how the car feels in transients. I.e. if I want more understeer on corner entry while maintaining the current balance in the other phases of the corner, Bob's program enables you to tune the dampers (in an easy to understand graphical display) to achieve this without knowing all the maths behind it and in much less time

I've tried using it for that purpose and didn't like the end result. My theory of using the bump dampers in a similar way to ARB's seems to work well for me. I use the rebound dampers to adjust balance over bumps and crests in a similar way.

thanks for all the replies, i may have to think a bit about my setups, but its only my XRR sets that look that "green", I was playing around with VHPA and quiet liked that set. At least i was faster with it than with my old.

Values in a set may look strange but it doesn't mean much because there are so many variables affecting the balance of a car.

At the end of the day a strange set would be one that has massive oversteer or understeer or behaves badly in transition. You can't tell anything much by looking at the numbers (unless your brain works the same way as the LFS physics engine).

Quote from ACCAkut :

I just found that "über" setup F1RST gave out on the 16h Racing minds page, and opened it in Bob's VHPA. [1. Pic] And it looks so different to my setups.
I think everything is set up oversteery to counter the locked diff.


Am i the only one who likes his sets (at least GTR) more like this? [2. Pic]

To me the 1st pic screenshot looks totally understandable the FZR would naturally be very understery on corner entry and be suseptable to oversteer on corner exit (with any type of diff), so therefore that indicates that the dampers are setup to help make the car more neutral in characteristic and therefore easier to drive fast over 16 hours

As Bob indicated though the rear end has quite high dampening values which could cause it to skip across bumps but with a locked diff that wouldn't be as large an issue as with other diff configs.

Quote from Forbin :

I've tried using it for that purpose and didn't like the end result. My theory of using the bump dampers in a similar way to ARB's seems to work well for me. I use the rebound dampers to adjust balance over bumps and crests in a similar way.

Is that mainly because you are talking about setups with downforce cars? I only really have played around with road cars with Bob's VHPA and find it useful with them, but I suspect you would have to account for downforce when tuning the suspension in the winged cars and I don't think the VHPA handles that yet? So it would only be useful for low speed corners

i always thought VHPA would consider the cars weight distribution making these colourful graphs

Quote from Glenn67 :

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Quote from Forbin :

I've tried using it for that purpose and didn't like the end result. My theory of using the bump dampers in a similar way to ARB's seems to work well for me. I use the rebound dampers to adjust balance over bumps and crests in a similar way.

Is that mainly because you are talking about setups with downforce cars? I only really have played around with road cars with Bob's VHPA and find it useful with them, but I suspect you would have to account for downforce when tuning the suspension in the winged cars and I don't think the VHPA handles that yet? So it would only be useful for low speed corners

Nope, that's worked for me in the LX4/6, XRT, and MRT as well.

Quote from Forbin :

Nope, that's worked for me in the LX4/6, XRT, and MRT as well.

Interesting I'll have to play around with that line of thinking next time I'm tinkering with a setup. Out of curosity do you use any calculations or are you just gestimating on the fly based on your understanding and experience?

I usually start at 50-75% of critical on the bump dampers and go up 0.5 or 1 Ns/mm steps from there.

Quote from ACCAkut :

i always thought VHPA would consider the cars weight distribution making these colourful graphs

Oh yes, weight distribution has the correctly affects the results.

Quote from Glenn67 :

I suspect you would have to account for downforce when tuning the suspension in the winged cars and I don't think the VHPA handles that yet?

Yes you would, and VHPA does apply downforce correctly. If you vary the speed slider in the live settings, you'll see your suspension compress on cars with downforce. Note downforce does not affect the affect of dampers on transients, so you'll see no changes there.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Yes you would, and VHPA does apply downforce correctly. If you vary the speed slider in the live settings, you'll see your suspension compress on cars with downforce. Note downforce does not affect the affect of dampers on transients, so you'll see no changes there.

Ah I was incorrectly assuming downforce would cause dynamic changes in spring frequency and therefore change the dynamics of the dampers also. I was thinking of it in terms of static changes i.e. thinking of the forces of aero and gravity as a combined whole in steady state snapshots... I know my untrained brain works in weired ways

Downforce changes load, not frequency. Kinda similar to preload* in that respect, which basically moves the damper range such that there is more travel available in compression but less in rebound by compressing the spring slightly. One might think this reduces suspension travel but that would only happen if the coils collided. In most suspension systems, the damper runs out of travel before this occurs.

*LFS does not have this (yet) and is not to be confused with diff preload or ride height

Quote from Sueycide_FD :

i haven't used this program, but i do agree that the setup is has ALOT of oversteer for a setup that needs to be comfortable over 16hrs.

I'd have to dissagree. I find it perfect around corners. However I find the downforce a bit too high so maybe losing some time on straights too. But on corners its PERFECT (Or nearly.) It feels like its gunna oversteer but it doesnt. Almost like a qual set, always on the limit.

I still like our set better but thats private.

Tbh, I tried VHPA a while back but I was way too noob to understand what everything was and how it affected handling and everything. Might give it another try sometime soon.

Im using Bob´s great tool for more than a year now and got best results with following ideas: First im checking the car in the Live Settings page. Im thinking about: which is the most important turn and what speed i should drive there as minimum (like 140 kmh at bl1 for instance - last turn). Checking tires analysis it says it would understeer when applying 50% throttle. Amount: half of one box. Back to Vehicle Settings page im setting static values like springs, rollbar and wings to neutral values. I personally like values around 3Hz for the GTR´s, maybe softer for bumpy tracks, maybe stiffer for flat ones. For damping i check weight distribution and at that side where most weight is (at front with XRR, rear with FZR) i begin with bump values at 70% and rebound values at 80%. Remembering the live settings value of understeer i try to find a combination of the remaining side in such a way that the effects of the tires getting equalized in the CornerExit bar. This will show half of one box oversteer now. I dont care if sometimes values result over the critical point, like it happens with FZR most times for me. But this are only values i start with. Checking tiretemps over some laps i often notice problems like overheated front tires for example. If camber and tirepressure changes doesnt work to avoid that without loosing too much speed in corners i begin to change damping at rear (with the XRR) - less rebound, if it understeers when turning in, and more bump damping if that happens out of a turn. Or i add wings front and reduce rear rollbar. Or i change steering. Or ...i try to learn driving smoother Since this is my approach for almost every combo, the cars always feeling similar and are easy to drive for me. Its amazing how i cant drive any foreign sets, even sets ppl have done WR´s with.