Ok so, you finish a race, but you are bursting for a pee, so you run to the bathroom, do your buisness asap, forget to flush, and run back to your PC only to find the race has either started and you're at the back, or someone's hit you and wrecked your car, 'cuz everyone has voted to restart instead of letting you have the cooldown period.

Either that, or you get spectated.



Now imagine you're racing on a combo you don't like. But instead of leaving, you stick with it, try to practise and etc, so you stay there for a whole 15 races, and then everyone keeps voting to restart. This over-rides the CTRA system, so upon next restart the track will not change, this has been known to go on over 4 and 5 times before people get bored of restarting.

Just my 2$

I didn't think a vote restart could happen until a fixed period after the race end anyway.

People restart to avoid a track change when the combo is good, and the racing close. At least that's what I have found. It's a majority thing, just like when a 'poor' combo appears and the majority vote end and hope for a better one.

You should always pit or spectate when you leave your computer, even if it's only for 10 seconds

But yeah, the Vote to Restart abuse at the end of a track to prevent it from changing is annoying sometimes if you don't like the combo

Yea and at the end of the day when 90% of the racers are ready to continue it would really suck not to be able to restart. Sure I see you point, hell that same type of situation has happened a few times before, but I find it more annoying to want to restart and needing to wait a full 2 minutes or what the timer is set to.

It can be particular tricky with dual class racing. On race3 the GT1 class can finish a minute ahead of GT2 and you hardly get a chance to get your breath back before CTRA restarts the race, never mind if a vote restart happens.

Quote from blackbird04217 :

Yea and at the end of the day when 90% of the racers are ready to continue it would really suck not to be able to restart. Sure I see you point, hell that same type of situation has happened a few times before, but I find it more annoying to want to restart and needing to wait a full 2 minutes or what the timer is set to.

It allows people time to have a potty break, grab a drink and either talk about the race, make swetup adjustments, etc.

It's not bish bash bosh racing.

If you leave your keyboard, go to spectate. Don't leave your car unattended on the track under any circumstances. If you're not back to your computer in time for the next race, then you weren't meant to be in that race. You won't lose your grid spot unless you come back to the track with a different car, since our concurrent qualifying system is the thing that determines your grid position, not your position in the last race.

The restarting system we have now is the best compromise available to satisfy the majority of racers in the majority of scenarios. You can't restart the race too soon after the race begins because this is OUR mechanism for preventing the old (and probably now mostly forgotten) T1-wreck:restart scenario. After the race, there is a delay before the next start but if the majority of racers want to start early to prevent a track change, that's what the majority wants and they shall have.

It's just not possible to change the way things work now without compromising some aspect of the way the system has proven itself to work so well to date.

You may not lose your grid space, I know this - But you will lose your race spot.

That's par for the course and it's better than losing your racing rights for trashing a race by leaving a dead-weight obstruction on the track.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

You may not lose your grid space, I know this - But you will lose your race spot.

Depends on the server.

Race1/SS1 maybe, but I don't think I've ever had a problem with 'Race Full' on any others.
And on the beginner servers, you more than often get a chance to join if you are quick enough due to someone roofing it, going out of bounds, or just leaving.

Well, I only race on Race1 so that's where the issue is.

Since my mid-race joining rights have been revoked, I can't do that.

Sam, care to tell me when my restriction will be lifted?

It'll be a while still but the system says you've worked off more than half your MRJ block.

Okay dokey thanks

Hi

after searching for "vote end" I've got to this thread.

and this is the reason why I bother:

Why does the X-system allow racers to majority-vote an END OF RACE ?

To my understanding, it's redicuous that ppl have that kind of control over the server since only ppl with their car on the track can vote.
And that excludes everyone that has temporarily pitted for setup-work e.g. right after crossing the finnish-line. This is annoying: you come to a new/not-frequently-raced combo and start to get used to it - after 1-2 races you decide that maybe you should try another setup or tweak the gear-ratios (a job that takes about 10-20 seconds), so you chose to pit, as like as 5 to 10 other ppl. Then, while you're at it, the left 3-4 on-track players, completely out of the blue, decide to end the race rendering the other players' work in the pits rather useless.

The second reason why I seriously dislike the end-vote is that this way only the known and/or popular tracks will be in favour of a race. Especially on JnB-layouts. But Rally-X tracks greatly suffer this fate as well on the normal Race-servers.
I think that way it is quite easy for the calculated ( 51+ % ) of a grid to pretty much ruin the time of day for the other ( 49 - % ).

I for one would much rather see an end to the ability of shift-X votes on at least the JnB server.

Oh, by the way, a big thank you for those new layouts on there. They have really brought a not-so-slight change to it - and I rather like the new combos. Especially the new LX4 combo is rather epic! Didn't have this much fun since a long time on JnB.
However - although a lot of ppl in the grid liked it on that run yesterday - voices kept appearing that demanded - once again - rb4. It really used to go like this: "what, no rb4? ; boring! ; Vote Shift-X, everyone!" And this time, too, only 2 races short of the proclaimed track-time they succeeded in shift-X'ing yet again.

Please - if at all possible - do something about it. Shift-X is getting more and more annoying. I don't even care if you shorten the individual track-time of the running combo but please let there be at least a chance of having some variety when racing on JnB.

You know what's boring? Coming onto a server regularly like 4 'o clock PM and always facing the exact same combo as yesterday.
That's like some really bad north-German radio stations that will tell you time and again they would have "the best out of 3-4 decades (blablabla...) and in reality don't care about music, anymore and just want to blend in into everybodies mood of the day so that they can bring you yet another commercial brake.

And of course shift-X. It cannot get more annoying than that!

Thanks for your time
&
Greets
[D-R-T] DrBen

Good points DrBen, I think I agree with most of your post.

I've been quite frustrated with the shift-x posse on a few occassions. Mostly when quite a few member from the same team are on a server and they follow each others lead.

Especially when they end one race early (as5r - a track i was really enjoying), and when the next track is selected they try to vote end that one as well. When the second vote end did not succeed they all b*ggered off leaving the rest of us to do 39 laps on so2r in the gtr's....

Some people only interested in running their favoured combos

Unfortunately we can't prevent people voting to change the combo. It's impossible for the system to determine if the vote to change is a good decision or a bad decision. The problem is not the system, it's the culture. If there is a solution to the problem, it won't be achieved by removing the option of majority voting.

Thanks for your explanation.

Is it really impossible to disable the voting feature alltogether when racing? If so then please pardon my questioning. It's just that I do not really get the point of a voting feature when operating a server on the basis of heavy rotation to begin with.

Thank you again for all you hard work
Cheers
DrBen

It's just impossible for the system to know whether the majority vote is because the majority want to change (which should always be respected, IMO) or because of a false majority - some technicality resulting in a minority of people in the server voting against the majority wish.

In essence if the majority of racers want to change track then I will always permit that. The alternative is to make the server mostly deserted for the wishes of a minority, which I am not willing to do. I accept that sometimes the majority of people in the server are not entering into the spirit of taking on a challenge, but that's still a cultural issue rather more than an X-System issue.

Quote from SamH :

In essence if the majority of racers want to change track then I will always permit that. The alternative is to make the server mostly deserted for the wishes of a minority, which I am not willing to do.

I see your point there and -I have to admit this - it makes perfect sense looking at it this way. So it is a deliberate decision then, to simply leave the vote-mechanism in-place, as is originally provided by lfs itself.

Quote :

I accept that sometimes the majority of people in the server are not entering into the spirit of taking on a challenge, but that's still a cultural issue rather more than an X-System issue.

Well then I will try and just accept it, too. Since going fast on a lone track is not to be called racing at all.
Shame on me for always wanting to improve the unimprovable:hippy:

Maybe an eventually to be introduced second "pro" - server (in the case of JnB) could provide the distinction between speed-ramming for the masses and a cleaner, more competition-focused bumper-racing culture. Maybe in a year or two, there will be enough of a demand for such a thing to happen. Until then I will strive to enjoy most of my time with you guys without letting the sad moments get to me too much.

On a side-note: the reason I grew so fond of JnB is that this server took over the spirit of competitive road-car racing from the former STCC-public servers that originally formed the first stage of the CTRA-system. Since the introduction of the slicks-equipped vehicles for the more advanced pilots the focus on tin-top racing has somehow vanished quite a bit, looking at the increasingly empty TBO-class server.
But hey, I'm not saying "all the good stuff lies in the past", either.

Have fun going fast
DrBen

About the start vote, it is ok for me. Just take a break when needed

and watch 1 race, may be you get some new lines shown.

But the end vote is annoying me too. Would be really nice if at least half

of the expected races have to be done to allow end race votes.

Take it easy Sam, don't get in a rush.

Quote :

I'm not saying "all the good stuff lies in the past", either.

Well in a sense the CTRA hasn't really made any major changes or pushes since X-System settled down. There's been no major new developments or attempts to introduce new culture changes for some time.

The decline of the TBO server is just natural waning, CTRA has never had enough players to pack all 3 CTRA tiered servers at the same time. The as yet not-materialised event system could in part be pointed at here.

Another alternative could be to open tier 1 up to demo - which i'm sure would have a possitive impact on LFS sales too, and would provide for a reintroduction of a similarly size (15 or so) UF1 server, or for re-distribution of the existing player base into race 2 & 3 servers. Without extra staff for stewarding however this could be problematical, infact I think a whole new approach would be required for demo users to remove the gamer mentality before they put foot to throttle pedal (email address locked pre-registration for demo accounts).

There just hasnt been any signifiant new innovations for some time, it's been a case of tweeking things slowly whilst waiting for X2.

Will X2 suddenly result in a surge of online activity for the CTRA sufficient to fill 3 tin top servers? I can't answer that as i'm not involved any more, but if it doesnt happen then things will stay pretty much as they are now.

We definitely won't be introducing demo-level servers. We don't currently have enough active admins to cover the existing servers. Being an LFS fan, I'd like nothing more than to see an increase in LFS licence sales and an increase in day-to-day server population as a result. I'm not about to assume responsibility for that, though, and that would be the only reason to launch a demo level CTRA server.

Culturally, the CTRA has had a solid impact across public servers. Expectations that we have enforced rigidly through our reporting system have become de facto across most if not all racing servers. I don't see any significant cultural shortfalls for us to begin changing for the first time, except perhaps post-race behaviour. Even that is a bone of contention and won't be resolved for a while. Otherwise, the racing culture that we have helped to shape is pretty damn good.

The GP points system, now that it's in a shape that I'm happy with, does open the door to some more interesting possibilities that I plan to cast open for discussion in the next few days/weeks. There is a need to seal the mid-term future of the CTRA and the GP points system is a component of that. Unless we can build a mid-term future, the fact is that we won't be in a position to extend into X2. More on that later.

FTR, I don't think that X2, when it comes, will result in a surge of online racing. Only the LFS devs can do things to cause such things. X2 may change its shape in some/many ways, but not its volume.

Otherwise I think the CTRA form is a solid one. The fact that we broke our own daily population records in August, a full year after first launch, does suggest that it ain't broke in large part - even if I am

Quote from DrBen :

But Rally-X tracks greatly suffer this fate as well on the normal Race-servers.

I don't like Shift-X either but every time I've seen a RallyX track coming up on Race 1, it ends up with an (almost) empty server; so even if there was a solution, Shift-X is necessary evil IMO.

Quote from SamH :

Unfortunately we can't prevent people voting to change the combo. It's impossible for the system to determine if the vote to change is a good decision or a bad decision. The problem is not the system, it's the culture. If there is a solution to the problem, it won't be achieved by removing the option of majority voting.

shift-x is absolutley a necessary evil, but can it be set to only get used upon race end?
i have no problem changing combos, but finishing the race seems to carry a bit of weight. ppl have said they dont race for points, but many of us do, so we just like to complete the ones we've started.

and if it is only available at race-end, can it be overridden if all cars crash in a race?

just my 2 cents.