TVE, not you.
Hate to say sir, but I smell a fanboi.
IR is challenging and hard, LFS could almost be titled as arcade in comparison. Biggest fail is the fact you can't have your own races, but maybe that will be fixed in the future.
someone else posted either here or in the other iracing thread that iracing and lfs complement each other and thats exactly what i feel about them.
lfs gives me the instant race fix i need when i have some time to spare (not much these days) but it doesn't deliver the serious organised racing i'd like to experience and be involved with. due to lack of time and commitments etc i can't do league racing as i wouldn't be able to guarentee being available at the right time for each race. iracing gives me this feeling of being involved in an organised enviroment, i can choose when to race or do time trials but it has to fit in with their plans and because of that each event feels important.
yes this means im not getting anything like value for money at the moment as i'm really struggling to get any gaming time and the choice between COD 4 (plus WaW demo now), lfs and iracing, battlefield 2 and fighter ace is often governed simply by the fact that for either LFs or iracing i have to set up my wheel first which means clearing all the junk off the desk but if i could actaully find some free time for either lfs or iracing i'd be happy.
lfs gives me the instant race fix i need when i have some time to spare (not much these days) but it doesn't deliver the serious organised racing i'd like to experience and be involved with. due to lack of time and commitments etc i can't do league racing as i wouldn't be able to guarentee being available at the right time for each race. iracing gives me this feeling of being involved in an organised enviroment, i can choose when to race or do time trials but it has to fit in with their plans and because of that each event feels important.
yes this means im not getting anything like value for money at the moment as i'm really struggling to get any gaming time and the choice between COD 4 (plus WaW demo now), lfs and iracing, battlefield 2 and fighter ace is often governed simply by the fact that for either LFs or iracing i have to set up my wheel first which means clearing all the junk off the desk but if i could actaully find some free time for either lfs or iracing i'd be happy.
How can you steal your own code? Dave wrote it and used portions of it that still applied. Fixed other things and completly rewrote most of it. Meaning he wrote entierly new code. New physics. Trust me, you uninformed troll, it is not a mod.
Your not on your own there, I am just the same, I can afford it but i refuse to pay over the odds every month for half a sim.
Keep believing that.
antttttttttt has a point though. iracing is still missing a lot of the basic features other sims have and imho it is fair to say that iracing was at least released early although "half sim" is defenately pushing it. The sim or the software isn't buggy but if you just look at what has been added to the sim and to the website in the past 6 months you'd surely agree that all that plus more would be/was expected to be in the first release? I defenately think that a 6 month wait would have done lot good to iracing as the product would have had a lot more features in it than it has now. The very idea that iracing has allowed themselves to tweak the physics on the base that someone on the forum has said that "the skippie is wrong and I know it 'cause I'm racer" doesn't exactly fill me with confidence. As for physics, they have said that they have truckloads of tire data they haven't put in into the sim.
Not half sim but defenately not much more than 60% either. Even if the money you pay is full price (rent)
that was only a joke
In most states in the USA, this would violate the "right of first sale" consumer law. For the most, but not all courts, the right of first sale supercedes EULA's, partially because EULA's don't conform to standard legal contracts, and also because it's unusual to allow contracts where consumers give up their normal rights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine
As posted in the RAS group, I doubt iRacing will survive 3 years as a sub-scription service, at least with it's current pricing scheme. The current economic situation in the USA may hasten a change. Last I read (I don't rent iRacing myself), the total number of members just past 6,000, and that includes members that have already dropped their accounts. By my guess, in order to turn profit, iRacing would need about 40,000 players online, not a good sign with the current count of 6,000 players. Currently the content is quite limited (not very many cars), and the fees for cars and tracks add to the pain, which will get worse once the car list gets bigger.
In terms of development costs, it's about the same as most other top games, or at least the ones that run on multi-platforms such as consoles and PCs. The NFS series spends close to $10 million or so per year, but with sales at 5 to 9 million per game (one released per year), it's making money.
I'm interested in radio control (gliders currently), and I can now buy a ready to fly, somewhat aerobatic, radio control helicopter for $200 (USA), which I would find more enjoyable, and easier to schedule time wise, than iRacing's current format.
I'm the same really. I played it, it was quite nice, but it wasn't nearly complete enough for the money.
I shall wait until it has been finished a bit more before paying what they are asking.
Although I keep hearing they've fixed the Radical, because when I played it it was a joke, but I just can't justify that much money to give it a whirl and see (especially as I've already paid for the fecking thing).
I think one of the problems for some people is that they are not used to Simulations having different prices. They think all Sims should come at the same price.
In my opinion, Live for Speed, netkarPro, etc. they are all FAR to cheap, and will not move forward significantly if not more money comes into play, these products are made for niche group of enthusiasts, not for the millions of people who like any type of Racing games, Sims are made for a small number of potential buyers, they cant be sold at the same price as an ego-shooter that sells million copies.
If LFS would have a more proper price structure, maybe also with monthly subscription of 4 - 8 $ per month, maybe the LFS Team could afford to hire more artists, could afford buying licenses for tracks and produce real tracks etc.
What I'm trying to say is if we believe our Sim Racing Genre can evolve and develop very fast without paying anything or only a little bit for it, we are on the wrong track, why should any developer invest in Sim Racing if the return will be very small, whereeas if a developer invest into normal Racing Games the return is far bigger.
For our Genre to be a healthy place for investors / developers to invest in the price for Sims must be fixed. The Sim Racing games Price's should not be like all other types of Games, the price of a Sims should reflect supply and demand, and the demand for serious Racing Simulation is very small compared to other Genre's, so the price MUST be higher to support this whole thing.
Some people seem kind of pissed off that after several years of stagnation in our genre something new comes out and its not on the same price level as normal video games. We have to realise in our genre products will never sell in the millions like Call of Duty or other games, while the investment costs can be the same.
What iRacing is doing and what I think LFS, netkarPro etc. should do aswell is trying to offer a premium product, that although costs more then normal video games but thats because its designed for a small group of potential buyers and offers superb quality.
Some people seems pissed off because of the price structure and think Racing Games should never cost that much but of course offer highest possible quality, continueing development, they want a premium product for a bargain price it's not going to happen. I also want a Porsche and cant afford one, but premium products should exist, and not all cars should cost the same, as some people seem to think all types of Games / Sims / Software must cost the same.
Compared to the Racing Simulation Genre, the Flight Simulation Genre has made huge leaps forward when they started offering planes, citys and airports for higher prices. Developers, Modders everybody was able to invest alot more into new stuff because there was return in it, they could afford to produce a big number of high quality content because people payed the price for that.
In iRacing with all Servers, continueing development with 40 employees, with laser scanned and high detailed cars and tracks and all that is part of there product costs 13$ a month and 15$ for cars and 20-25$ for tracks.
What are somre Flight Simulation Simmers ready to pay for high quality, although without continueing development, no laser scanned anything, often made by enthusiasts in there spare time?
Aerosoft - PMDG 747 Boeing = $60
Just Flights - 737 Boeing = $45
Wilco Pub - Airbus A380 v2 = $60
Just Flights - Airbus A340 = $55
Just Flights - Tiger Moth = $70
Aerosoft - Switzerland = $190
Mega Scenery - Southern California = $60
Aerosoft - West Germany = $80
Horizons - Southern England+South Wales = $60
In some Sim Racers eyes these prices are outrageous !
But its just the price for better quality and what let the Flight Simulation Genre flourish while the Sim Racing Genre stagnates since years with very few new products coming out, with some developers going into bankruptcy and others desperately starting to make half Sim - half Games. So if we really want Sim Racing to become better it's not going to come for free.
And I would be happy if Scawen rethinks his price structure and comes up with something new that also allows him to speed up development, hire some artists and buy licenses and produce real tracks for example. If we could have tracks like Spa etc. for LFS I think alot of people would be ready to pay for real tracks in LFS.
In my opinion, Live for Speed, netkarPro, etc. they are all FAR to cheap, and will not move forward significantly if not more money comes into play, these products are made for niche group of enthusiasts, not for the millions of people who like any type of Racing games, Sims are made for a small number of potential buyers, they cant be sold at the same price as an ego-shooter that sells million copies.
If LFS would have a more proper price structure, maybe also with monthly subscription of 4 - 8 $ per month, maybe the LFS Team could afford to hire more artists, could afford buying licenses for tracks and produce real tracks etc.
What I'm trying to say is if we believe our Sim Racing Genre can evolve and develop very fast without paying anything or only a little bit for it, we are on the wrong track, why should any developer invest in Sim Racing if the return will be very small, whereeas if a developer invest into normal Racing Games the return is far bigger.
For our Genre to be a healthy place for investors / developers to invest in the price for Sims must be fixed. The Sim Racing games Price's should not be like all other types of Games, the price of a Sims should reflect supply and demand, and the demand for serious Racing Simulation is very small compared to other Genre's, so the price MUST be higher to support this whole thing.
Some people seem kind of pissed off that after several years of stagnation in our genre something new comes out and its not on the same price level as normal video games. We have to realise in our genre products will never sell in the millions like Call of Duty or other games, while the investment costs can be the same.
What iRacing is doing and what I think LFS, netkarPro etc. should do aswell is trying to offer a premium product, that although costs more then normal video games but thats because its designed for a small group of potential buyers and offers superb quality.
Some people seems pissed off because of the price structure and think Racing Games should never cost that much but of course offer highest possible quality, continueing development, they want a premium product for a bargain price it's not going to happen. I also want a Porsche and cant afford one, but premium products should exist, and not all cars should cost the same, as some people seem to think all types of Games / Sims / Software must cost the same.
Compared to the Racing Simulation Genre, the Flight Simulation Genre has made huge leaps forward when they started offering planes, citys and airports for higher prices. Developers, Modders everybody was able to invest alot more into new stuff because there was return in it, they could afford to produce a big number of high quality content because people payed the price for that.
In iRacing with all Servers, continueing development with 40 employees, with laser scanned and high detailed cars and tracks and all that is part of there product costs 13$ a month and 15$ for cars and 20-25$ for tracks.
What are somre Flight Simulation Simmers ready to pay for high quality, although without continueing development, no laser scanned anything, often made by enthusiasts in there spare time?
Aerosoft - PMDG 747 Boeing = $60
Just Flights - 737 Boeing = $45
Wilco Pub - Airbus A380 v2 = $60
Just Flights - Airbus A340 = $55
Just Flights - Tiger Moth = $70
Aerosoft - Switzerland = $190
Mega Scenery - Southern California = $60
Aerosoft - West Germany = $80
Horizons - Southern England+South Wales = $60
In some Sim Racers eyes these prices are outrageous !
But its just the price for better quality and what let the Flight Simulation Genre flourish while the Sim Racing Genre stagnates since years with very few new products coming out, with some developers going into bankruptcy and others desperately starting to make half Sim - half Games. So if we really want Sim Racing to become better it's not going to come for free.
And I would be happy if Scawen rethinks his price structure and comes up with something new that also allows him to speed up development, hire some artists and buy licenses and produce real tracks for example. If we could have tracks like Spa etc. for LFS I think alot of people would be ready to pay for real tracks in LFS.
Flight sim add-on prices are a bad example, because the free stuff is sometimes as good or better than the stuff you pay for.
The other issue is how many players are willing to spend the $500 to $700 projected cost of iRacing for a 3 or so year period?
The other issue is how many players are willing to spend the $500 to $700 projected cost of iRacing for a 3 or so year period?
Which doesnt speak against pay content stuff at all. Yeah free stuff can sometimes be better then payed stuff, doesnt mean either one should not exist.
You do realise you have to pay for each car or track only once? With the iRacing credit for signing up for a year you can get most US major Race tracks and nearly all cars so far for no additional costs which you'll keep forever. And I like Oval and RC stuff. If your just into RC or just in Oval Racing, you can get nearly all cars from Legends cars to Sprint Cup car and alot of tracks for free if you sign up for a year. So the longtime costs are n't as much as they might appear if you take a closer look at it.
I think the price comparison is a bit pointless as doing anything in real life will cost more than doing something on computer screen. It's like photography. You can get good programs quite easily and freely and using them will only cost you time and effort. When you start dishing out money for equipment, real life stuff, it's suddenly expensive hobby. And you can't take pictures sitting inside. The most pointless comparison ever is to compare a racing sim, like iracing, into real racing. It is just so pointless excercise that it is plain stupidity, total lack of understanding the concepts of two different things. It's like comparing taking screenshots into photography and their monies worth.
As for racing sim iracing defenately is expensive, it is far more expensive than any other game there is and far more limited in many ways as well. But for me personally it isn't too expensive which is why I'm still subscribing into it. And I can easily see why there are people who don't see getting their monies worth in iracing. The key is the limit of when stuff gets too expensive.
As for 500 to 700 per years, that's very very very (veryvery) optimistic. If they add stuff at this rate it's more like double of that. just the base subscription is 156 so that alone with the cheapest option makes 468$ for three years and with that you're driving just the solstice or legends plus what you want with that 180$ iracing extra dollars you get on top of that. Personally I've spent about 300$ into iracing and it's hardly monies worth for that amount. But not too expensive imho.
I think the whole price system discussion gets quite ridiculous at times. I've read posts on the iracing forum which say that in reality the first years costs just 96 dollars (156-60) which is a complete misunderstanding of how the money gets taken out of your purse when you buy stuff. Then there is the other end who bought lfs or gpl with a tenner or 40€ and for them anything more than a tenner per decade is excess and foolish.
There are many in the middle who have different opinions about iracing. Comparing iracing into the costs of real hobby won't make anyone into believer as it won't saying that it is a revolution and relatively cheap for what you relatively pay for.
As for racing sim iracing defenately is expensive, it is far more expensive than any other game there is and far more limited in many ways as well. But for me personally it isn't too expensive which is why I'm still subscribing into it. And I can easily see why there are people who don't see getting their monies worth in iracing. The key is the limit of when stuff gets too expensive.
As for 500 to 700 per years, that's very very very (veryvery) optimistic. If they add stuff at this rate it's more like double of that. just the base subscription is 156 so that alone with the cheapest option makes 468$ for three years and with that you're driving just the solstice or legends plus what you want with that 180$ iracing extra dollars you get on top of that. Personally I've spent about 300$ into iracing and it's hardly monies worth for that amount. But not too expensive imho.
I think the whole price system discussion gets quite ridiculous at times. I've read posts on the iracing forum which say that in reality the first years costs just 96 dollars (156-60) which is a complete misunderstanding of how the money gets taken out of your purse when you buy stuff. Then there is the other end who bought lfs or gpl with a tenner or 40€ and for them anything more than a tenner per decade is excess and foolish.
There are many in the middle who have different opinions about iracing. Comparing iracing into the costs of real hobby won't make anyone into believer as it won't saying that it is a revolution and relatively cheap for what you relatively pay for.
thats the real killer for me... fixing cars theyve supposedly tested and measured in every possible way
for me it sounds like admitting they know as little about the physics as anybody else in the business
What's the point of i racing.com
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