This may be suggested before, but I'll bring it to highlights:
In LFS you have much less grip in tyres than in real life, so in LFS, you spin easier than in real life. Maybe bit more grip to tyres and that's it
In LFS you have too much maximum grip sometimes - over 1.2g in the road cars. However, the way the cars lose and, more specifically, regain grip is questionable and will be fixed in the forthcoming patch. This same patch will also alter a few things. You might also be referring to the low grip at low speeds, but this is rarely a problem whilst racing as your speeds will be much higher.
Many 'sims' give you too much grip to reduce the 'driving on ice' feeling. However, this isn't (imo) a very realistic way of overcoming the lack of feeling you will get in a sim. You aren't in the car and can't feel the car in the same way. Once you get used to LFS you'll find it's actually VERY good - you can feel the sidewalls of the tyres move around as you approach the limit of grip.
It's a common feeling that LFS has too little grip, but this is because it doesn't fake anything. GPL, the other great simulator, also had this 'on ice' feeling.
Some Road cars can do turns in more than 1.2g of lateral force,
samples : Porsche Carrera GT , and 1990 Alfa Romeo SZ has got WR for several years, on lateral G force more than 1G , some people claims that the last real Alfa Romeo(currently Alfas, are Fiats in Alfa dress) takes 1.2g (mesured) and some unsure source claims 1.4g but i don't believe it.
if you see it in the XF-GTI with more ^_^ than 1.2g sure is irreal.
I don't think this is a case of more grip, but instead more stability. GTLegends cars don't have a lot of grip, but they are much easier to control than similarly powered cars in LFS. I don't know what the issue is, tire physics and/or differential, but the higher powered RWD cars in LFS just seem too unstable. The LX6 seems to be one of the more unstable cars in the game and takes some extreme setup values to tame it.
1. LFS Tyre physics flaws, which will be fixed
2. Lack of feeling in the cars as you're not actually in them
3. GTL doesn't simulate everything (or half as much) as LFS does, and fakes a lot to make it more rewarding and easier, and SEEM more realistic. When I've tried GTL I though it was pants personally.
Rest Assured that LFS will get better with the new patch, and then is the time to point out it's flaws.
well with all those technical talks on LFS tire physics for the past few months, I'll just agree with Hiwer here, its just that simple, with a little more grip, and LFS would be awesome (more). :P
like many of you guys here, I trust the LFS developers 100% and I'm really looking forward for the new patch, rest assured Hiwer, I'm sure your concern regarding the grip issue would be improved a lot in the next patch.
If you just give the tyres "more grip" then three things will happen:
1) unrealistically high cornering forces
2) the same faulty tail happy behaviour just at a higher speed/cornering force
3) the same low speed grip issues, when comparing to the available grip at higher paces
yes I understand, I'm just trying to explain all of it in a much much more simpler way that's all, the word "more grip" in my previous post simply refers to the fix/improvement of the current tire bug lfs has. Like I said, I trust the devs, which means I know they won't simply just add some numbers just to raise the "grip level", I also understand pretty much on what the current problem with LFS is and what is required to make it better (since so many threads regarding this has been posted over and over, and I've read them all )
I'm not really good at English, sorry for the confusion, hehe.
I find LFS now to be the easiest sim to control. Why? Because now that I'm use to the grip in LFS, it's all the way LFS does the FF and sound now. With GTL, I can't control the cars at all because of the way FF and sound is. It tells me nothing about what the car is doing, it only tells what the car has done. Now, when sims do canned effects and sampled sounds, I feel/hear the slight delay of the sim doing "this" because the car "DID THAT". Unlike LFS where the FF/sounds do "this" because the car IS DOING "this". LFS has kind of ruined all other sims for me because of the way it is done and everything being physics driven (not a bad thing for LFS).
The biggest difference when I drive other sims (GPL, nascar, namie) is that you do much less corrections and the rear is more predictable to control. Not easier but more predictable. The most frightening moments in LFS are when yopu are driving a road car above 100mph (RAC, LX6, FZ50) and the rear steps out. Getting it back is pure luck atm. Which is sad because the RAC is soo fun to drive on tracks where there aren't long med-speed or fast corners.
LFS has had that slippy feeling since its first release, I doubt that one patch will suddenly "fix it". But improvements make LFS be closer to perfection. The patch won't be a sudden huge leap.
I'm hopeful about the patch but it is just weird and suspicious that the problems have been there years and then Scawen just suddenly admits and tells he's going to fix them.
Why not? Not feeling the cars makes a huge difference. Imagine trying to control your real car on the limit without actually feeling anything that the car is doing. Perhaps the problem lies not only with LFS (which of course has problems) but with the other sims that 'cover up' the inherent problem with unrealistic grip 'boosters' or dumbed down physics. I suspect that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. LFS will get better, but those of you who expect to be able to floor the throttle in 2nd gear in a 140bhp car whilst on the limit of traction will never be truly happy with LFS
For those that want "more grip" you need to learn to be MORE SUBTLE with your controls.
With the Aussie V8 (Real car big block racing at its best ) racing on TV down here they show foot cam in one corner of the screen at times so you can see out the cockpit and see the drivers feet working. When you see this you notice that until the car is up to a speed where it is safe to just boot the "loud" pedal the driver can take a number of seconds from changing gear to having their foot down on the floor.
Simple reason really, boot a powerful car at low speeds and the back end WILL get very loose.
If anything the tires on the GTI etc have TOO MUCH grip. The problem (apart from issues raised above by others, such as how tires lose grip) is PERCEPTION.
Trist has already stated that you cant feel the car (True in all sims) and this has FAR more impact that most people who ask for more gip give credit.
The force feedback in LFS is good and lets you know what is going on better than any other sim (IMHO) BUT it is still giving you that info AFTER the fact. IRL you feel the back end twitch through your body FAR FAR sooner than you do through the wheel. You feel the weight shift and the change in G etc. This might only be a less than 0.1-0.2 seconds BUT that gives you the time to correct before the back steps. In LFS you are reacting after the back has stepped and hence have to correct more because the car is that much further over the edge.
Yes I think to... I had even mesuring average grip, to avoid this extrem values in just short time, using F1perfwiev eng got about 0.9!!! Its very big value.
I went round with my XRG and it slides a lot even though i drove really fast. there are no grip. and its true that it is like driving on ice. but please for the next patch give us GRIP!
What I don't get is why there are skid marks when you turn at low speed. Let's say you do 5-10km/h and does a tight turn, it will make sound and skid marks, for me that's just strange
Dude, even my mother's Hunday Atos does not make skid marks or sound when turning hard in 5 kmh, it sits glued to the road and does not skid. Try it yourselfe, no need to be even close to full lock.
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