Evidently we didn't see it during the race otherwise we would have acted on it. If one of the teams had protested it we would have acted on it but we didn't get any protests. Teams who saw it and didn't protest it must take some of the blame here (as must the admins). You ask who cares if cars get penalised after the race completion. Well, the team being penalised and the teams who stand to gain from it. We have the ability to apply retrospective penalties ranging from 30 seconds up to 5 laps.
Evidently we didn't see it during the race otherwise we would have acted on it. If one of the teams had protested it we would have acted on it but we didn't get any protests. Teams who saw it and didn't protest it must take some of the blame here (as must the admins). You ask who cares if cars get penalised after the race completion. Well, the team being penalised and the teams who stand to gain from it. We have the ability to apply retrospective penalties ranging from 30 seconds up to 5 laps.
Tbh i didn't know that there was such a rule and i think that i am not the only one.
And how will you decide how much his penalty will be?
And how will you decide how much his penalty will be?
We'll not give any informations at this point regarding the final results of the race.
You can be sure that we are not happy in any way regarding the formation lap and start and are currently discussing it internally. No further posts needed at this point.
Results will be published when they are done.
I think you're asolutely right Marco.
Unless something bad happens, the driver right in front of you on the grid (in positions) should be your target, no matter how big a gap he leaves to the car in front.I've discussed this with André and found the reason for this problem here. I was going to make vids and screenshots and etc. but luckily the screenshot in Josh' post already explains what's going on. As you can see, according to LFS, André's position is 5th at the moment the screenshot was taken. Now looking at where he is in the pack, his position should obviously be 3rd. Unfortunately André used the big figure in the top right of his screen to orientate, and you can see from the replay that LFS calculates his position as 5th/4th from the beginning of the straight, until the finish line.
We've taken note of this and will make sure to prevent this from happening next time around, by using only windows and mirrors to navigate to our position.
Alright, I still wanted to make a point stating that orientating to the car besides you instead of in front is absolutely not the way to go.
First of all I've noticed a lot of people already having trouble doing 2 things: maintaining a constant low speed and wachting out to not bump anyone. If u add to that looking to the side to watch if you are not in front of the guy beside you, the start will become more dangerous. Multitasking just isn't a guy thing.
Secondly, if Andre has to use Marco as orientation he might have to use his brake, what can lead to a chain reaction and ultimately crashes. Like on the backstraight this last race. Tough the situation is very different it shows what a chain reaction can lead to.
Last but not least, the number 4 will become the little bitch of the number 3. Really if the number 3 wants to look out for some hot chicks on the way to the start there will be no pressure from behind. He can just take some distance to create the ultimate situation for himself, starting at even numberd positions will become something to avoid.
Besides that, with this example Marco is only in 4th place on the actual track position. Racewise he still is in 3rd. I'll try and explain this using an example from my work at the karting track.
This is the way the startinggrid has to be, but in the 4 years I work there never has anyone kept his second position after the start. Why? Becasue racewise he's in 3rd. This is the exact same thing what happened with the start in South City, yes Andre was in front, but since he's on the outside line he'll never have a run for 3rd in the first corner.
If this will be such an issue in the future, it would be better to do a single file start, but thats half the fun right?
First of all I've noticed a lot of people already having trouble doing 2 things: maintaining a constant low speed and wachting out to not bump anyone. If u add to that looking to the side to watch if you are not in front of the guy beside you, the start will become more dangerous. Multitasking just isn't a guy thing.
Secondly, if Andre has to use Marco as orientation he might have to use his brake, what can lead to a chain reaction and ultimately crashes. Like on the backstraight this last race. Tough the situation is very different it shows what a chain reaction can lead to.
Last but not least, the number 4 will become the little bitch of the number 3. Really if the number 3 wants to look out for some hot chicks on the way to the start there will be no pressure from behind. He can just take some distance to create the ultimate situation for himself, starting at even numberd positions will become something to avoid.
Besides that, with this example Marco is only in 4th place on the actual track position. Racewise he still is in 3rd. I'll try and explain this using an example from my work at the karting track.
This is the way the startinggrid has to be, but in the 4 years I work there never has anyone kept his second position after the start. Why? Becasue racewise he's in 3rd. This is the exact same thing what happened with the start in South City, yes Andre was in front, but since he's on the outside line he'll never have a run for 3rd in the first corner.
If this will be such an issue in the future, it would be better to do a single file start, but thats half the fun right?
Well I think someone should pay Frank to make his starting tool work in these patches becuase that was by far the best solution to any of the problems we've had.
At the start I use the look to the side function, in this case to watch Johannes, you only have to take a few looksover at him which is not the hardest thing in the world to do. Everyone else seems to be able to do and to be quite honest if your not able to keep your position at the start then you really shouldn't be doing it.
I just have to say, what luck Inferno have? I mean, i've only saw two and I wasnt speiciflcy looking for the second incident, but when Pearcy comes out of the pits, cuts the yellow line and ploughs into the side of the inferno car, then like an hour later, the 3id car comes out of the pits and does the exact same thing to them. :P But yea, it was really quite a shame to see such incidents occurring, our race was ruined by the above incident, people just not giving a shit.
Meh, atleast we have westhill, lots of room, big speed differnce.
At the start I use the look to the side function, in this case to watch Johannes, you only have to take a few looksover at him which is not the hardest thing in the world to do. Everyone else seems to be able to do and to be quite honest if your not able to keep your position at the start then you really shouldn't be doing it.
I just have to say, what luck Inferno have? I mean, i've only saw two and I wasnt speiciflcy looking for the second incident, but when Pearcy comes out of the pits, cuts the yellow line and ploughs into the side of the inferno car, then like an hour later, the 3id car comes out of the pits and does the exact same thing to them. :P But yea, it was really quite a shame to see such incidents occurring, our race was ruined by the above incident, people just not giving a shit.
Meh, atleast we have westhill, lots of room, big speed differnce.
"He can just take some distance to create the ultimate situation for himself, starting at even numberd positions will become something to avoid."
The only way to guarantee you'll be on an odd number is by taking pole or maybe if theres an odd number of drivers, being the slowest. Suggesting people would in some way attempt to avoid qualifying on an even number is laughable.
Of all the racing i watch, non of them offer you a choice of which side of the grid you start on, which is why you always hear about people starting on the dirty line and things like that, but rarely would you hear any of them say they'd prefer to have qualified a place worse to be on the other side of the grid.
Lastly, the person you childishly offered a rock to not only managed to hold the position he was entitled to before the green light at last seasons South City race, but he also went from 4th to 1st by the first corner in GT2 class, so that kinda blows the whole 'the worlds against 3rd place' type theory that being on the outside means your the 'bitch' to those on the inside as captain obvious passed TWO cars who were on the inside and qualified ahead of him.
Also, something slightly off topic, but seeing as i just found it whilst double checking it was 4th he started the race from....
Incidently, my next suggestion was to hold the race in 2 parts, GT1 for 3hrs and then GT2 for 3hrs. Is my sarcastic suggestion being saved for next season?
If you guys need any more suggestions to reject but use later on, just ask
The only way to guarantee you'll be on an odd number is by taking pole or maybe if theres an odd number of drivers, being the slowest. Suggesting people would in some way attempt to avoid qualifying on an even number is laughable.
Of all the racing i watch, non of them offer you a choice of which side of the grid you start on, which is why you always hear about people starting on the dirty line and things like that, but rarely would you hear any of them say they'd prefer to have qualified a place worse to be on the other side of the grid.
Lastly, the person you childishly offered a rock to not only managed to hold the position he was entitled to before the green light at last seasons South City race, but he also went from 4th to 1st by the first corner in GT2 class, so that kinda blows the whole 'the worlds against 3rd place' type theory that being on the outside means your the 'bitch' to those on the inside as captain obvious passed TWO cars who were on the inside and qualified ahead of him.
Also, something slightly off topic, but seeing as i just found it whilst double checking it was 4th he started the race from....
Incidently, my next suggestion was to hold the race in 2 parts, GT1 for 3hrs and then GT2 for 3hrs. Is my sarcastic suggestion being saved for next season?
If you guys need any more suggestions to reject but use later on, just ask
Someone didn't watch the ITV build up to the F1 today, Kimi said he was far happier starting 3rd than 2nd, claiming 3rd was better than second to be starting.
Oh yea, I meant to say I was more than happy starting on the outside of the grid, When I was braking for T1 I knew I had braked late and watching Johannes brake later meant I would be easily on his outside for the next corner, untill the silent assassin Jay decided he wanted to touch my ass before I left.
I already said sorry for that but i assumed i had cleared the yellow line and that it wouldn't go all the way the the apex where imo it would have been more dangerous for me, coming out of the pits i was trying to get some sort of line for the next corner. At the end of the day, i didn't see the Inferno car and ill admit to it, i wasn't paying attention but he didn't see me either, so was that not a small amount of carelessness on their part too after all he had the best veiw, he wasn't looking behind for other cars, if hed have given me soom room on the apex instead of squeesing me it wouldn't have happened, i accept responsability for it because at the end of the day i got the penalty so im guessing i was in the wrong.
EDIT: In fact, didn't the same thing happen in F1 with Bordais and Massa, the only difference was bordais drove a straight line to the first corner and i didn't, i think (ive not watched the replay for a while) that all i can do is hug the apex, what ever else happens is pretty much out of my control? yes or no?
And if i remember right there was 3 or 4 GT1 cars right behind him, was i supposed to stop on trackto let them pass if id have gone at either intervals or not cut the yellow line the same thing probably would of happened, i just want you to cut me a bit of slack, yes it was mostly all my fault, i made a mistake.
I haven't seen the xFusion incident, but it happened with us twice when dave took over and tbh, it wasn't our fault. Dave hugged the inside as much as possible and it was inferno/other teams fault. Theres nothing else that can be done there. Not to mention both times we lost loads of time waiting for cars to pass so we can turn the car round with a red clutch having just made a pit stop.
It's more or less at the 4 hour mark after i take over, GT2 car. I know your not supposed to cross the yellow line but i did out of my better judgement of the situation, if anything it made it easier for him to see me, i think a stop and go penalty was a little harsh for crossing the line when the incident would have been the same if not worse if i hadn't. (Need to look at the replay again as i always remember things different).
BTW our race was virtually ruined in the first hour so im not going to persue anything further.
BTW our race was virtually ruined in the first hour so im not going to persue anything further.
What was the penalty given? If it was just a DT then you got off lightly, as that would just have been for the cutting of the yellow line, but there's also driving the wrong way into oncoming cars.
Ah right, a stop go, quite deserved IMO, though it doesn't really matter when your race was ruined in the first hour. :P
I saw bits of it, sadly i didnt have control of the magic doofer so there was some flicking.
However, i said someone who would have prefered to start 1 place back, someone who'd rather have 2 cars ahead of them then just 1 etc. Eitherway, no suprise Kimi said that, im sure it was fully intentional to let the TOYOTA qualify ahead of him
@ Ray, we stopped filing protests because it's all been over at that point already. We had a T1 racing incident crash resulting in a MEGA flatspot(spdo braked early and I even tried to avoid AND they have not really lost significant time there but hey, why not give us a DT) then we had several crashes of GT2 cars sometimes bad luck, sometimes just not understandable......and finally Martin disconnected from LFS although his internet connection was fine all the time (he kept on talking on TS to me as he said ohh, lost connection o.O wth)
@ Admins, I do not want to appear harshly or sth. like that, but how hard can it be to understand that it is IMPOSSIBLE for us to get our replay of the incident when the driver will race to the end? After his disconnect there wasn't even any chance he could submit the replay at all. There were always like 3 admins on the server who could easily have saved the replay quickly and take a look into it. At least in such a situation.
@Starting procedure: How do u really want to overtake with a speed advantage if you're already inside the muffler of the car ahead???
The picture shows how large the distance between our (Inferno) Car and spdo car is and I was right on their tail before the bridge (thx to slipstream...) Just aim for your car to be with its nose at the door of the car ahead, then you do not even have to use look left/right and have some space in case the car ahead does something stupid........(ohh and I heard about small lags ruining a start when cars were to close together...)
@ Admins, I do not want to appear harshly or sth. like that, but how hard can it be to understand that it is IMPOSSIBLE for us to get our replay of the incident when the driver will race to the end? After his disconnect there wasn't even any chance he could submit the replay at all. There were always like 3 admins on the server who could easily have saved the replay quickly and take a look into it. At least in such a situation.
@Starting procedure: How do u really want to overtake with a speed advantage if you're already inside the muffler of the car ahead???
The picture shows how large the distance between our (Inferno) Car and spdo car is and I was right on their tail before the bridge (thx to slipstream...) Just aim for your car to be with its nose at the door of the car ahead, then you do not even have to use look left/right and have some space in case the car ahead does something stupid........(ohh and I heard about small lags ruining a start when cars were to close together...)
LFS offers a nice auto-save function for replays, you might wanna look into.
this is not new.
Ray, i didn't drive into any oncoming traffic if you watch the replay, in real racing your always told to keep your foot on the brake if you spin, then the people coming towards you can aviod you without playing guessing games.
Well the car in front of me was braking too early too. You need to adapt your speed to the others and see where they are braking not drive like it's hotlap mode
Yes I know about that. But we filed the protest more than 2h before the race finished. And we wanted the protest to be looked at during the race. Unless LFS has a cool Save-replay-and-directly-upload-it-into-the-right-protest-thread feature there was no way getting that protest done during the race.
@ Hawku: I'm not a hotlapper and I only practised with my teammates together. I was watching the cars around and really was surprised by your early braking. And as mentioned before the car in front of you was braking later than u and even increased the distance of which there was plenty when you hit the anchors. I never said it wasn't my mistake, but it was neither an attempt to overtake nor an intentional action AND you did not lose the race by that. There are/were other situations that have been way worse which were declared a racing incident. Just remember IGTC So4, wasn't it your team driving over our car's nose under the bridge.....? And we lost a lot more there than just 2 seconds...including suspension damage
That app was great indeed, never had any startcrashes iirc with this in the past
I'll give you a clue, the "loud" pedal is shown in LFS by the little green bar at the bottom right, i'll give you another clue, that number in the middle of the screen shows what speed your car is doing.
Funny when I watch the replay I see that A you don't even touch the brake when your car starts spinning and B The first thing you do before you even stop is hit the throttle.
Edit : Holy shiot! I never even noticed that speedo got spun at the start, awesome recovery
Right i was braking earlier than the guy infront of me? That's just not true.
http://spdoracing.com/files/brake.avi you can check the point there and you can quite clearly see that im braking bit later when his brake lights comes up and even cathing him up under braking.
Oh and in igtc i believe misan in our car had overlap on you on the outside and you were the one who drove in his door or so.
Edit: Seems like you think that we lost only 2s because of that? We lost 5places because of that and much more time getting back to 5th place.
(kaynd)
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by kaynd : not the right place for that post.
It looks a bit different on my replay where the seems to be a slight mistake in synchronisation...however it still wasn't intentional or a stupid move....It also was unfortunate that you steered/warped to the left as I tried to avoid you there....
And that IGTC thingy, even if you have the OUTSIDE overlap, there is absolutely NO WAY of driving into the inner car...there is enough space for 2 cars to go. if you want to be sure to overtake there wait for T1 or use the inside, the outside is always risky and your driver failed to give enough room on the inside.
If it was Viktor who tried to overtake you there on the inside being only half way to your car then I would be of the same opinion like you. But the other way round, no deal!
And that IGTC thingy, even if you have the OUTSIDE overlap, there is absolutely NO WAY of driving into the inner car...there is enough space for 2 cars to go. if you want to be sure to overtake there wait for T1 or use the inside, the outside is always risky and your driver failed to give enough room on the inside.
If it was Viktor who tried to overtake you there on the inside being only half way to your car then I would be of the same opinion like you. But the other way round, no deal!
After Hup recovered the positions he lost from that incident he was 15 seconds behind Roque - whom he was alongside going into turn one. The (neutral) admins rejected your protest in IGTC and they upheld ours in MoE - enough said.
There was no need for me to be on the brakes i was already at a standstill, what was i supposed to do? start reversing back and then someone that actually takes notice of a yellow flag and does aviod me gets hit?
If youd look more carefully, youd see when i anitially spun i was bang in the middle of the corner, so i tried moving to behind the apex hoping everyone would miss me but i was postitioned wrong, me moving forward didn't make the slightest bit of difference to the outcome, actually it helped because if i hadn't he would have hit me square on.
6 Hours of South City Long: Protests
(92 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG