Why don't we just introduce that each car must have a gap of about 5 car lengths to the car infront and we wouldn't be having any of these problems?

South city was a complete freak accident, the safety car slowed down which was fine for the GT1 cars because we could visibly see everyone slowing, but watch it from the Mercury GT2 car, he comes over the brow of the hill and surprise buttsecks, there's a traffic jam.

Especcially in this patch when we have to use R3s the temperatures drop like stones and especcially now we have a broadcast the first two laps of a MoE race is gunna look like a complete noob fest untill we get some heat in the tyres.

I totally agree with Ray. Maybe people should practise with the safety car once or so, or indeed, set some rule that you have to keep a certain distance. Although that might make the starts pretty boring, or in fact spectacular, with the slipstream..

Quote from Bawbag :

Especcially in this patch when we have to use R3s the temperatures drop like stones

How do you think our R4's will be then ?

Well, I'm very agreed with the posts above. South City was a difficult track with not much space. The next tracks will be much more open with plenty of space, and I therefore see no reason for any rulechange. Keep it as it is, and there wont happent anything again

We simply have to many Montoyas in this grid to allow it atm.

Watch the restart of the 24 hourt race after the server crash, I specificly remember a team with the FXR, into T1 their tyres were black, probarly about 30 degreese, he couldn't turn and went straight on while going about 30mph slower than normal through turn 1.

@ 3j, if there are to many Montoyas, then fix it, inform each team manager of each Montoya that they have to sort out their driver or face a penalty.

This is supposed to be a the MoE, the peak of LFS endurance racing, yet were gunna be even be restricted with stupid rules like this?

@ d1, when I say 5 car lengths I mean just for the single file traffic while everyone is warming there tyres, but when it goes to double file we just use the exact same format that were on. It's like driving IRL in the rain, you allways leave a much larger gap for stopping than you do in the dry, shouldn't be hard at all.

Quote from Bawbag :

Watch the restart of the 24 hourt race after the server crash, I specificly remember a team with the FXR, into T1 their tyres were black, probarly about 30 degreese, he couldn't turn and went straight on while going about 30mph slower than normal through turn 1.

@ 3j, if there are to many Montoyas, then fix it, inform each team manager of each Montoya that they have to sort out their driver or face a penalty.

This is supposed to be a the MoE, the peak of LFS endurance racing, yet were gunna be even be restricted with stupid rules like this?

@ d1, when I say 5 car lengths I mean just for the single file traffic while everyone is warming there tyres, but when it goes to double file we just use the exact same format that were on. It's like driving IRL in the rain, you allways leave a much larger gap for stopping than you do in the dry, shouldn't be hard at all.

Again, I see your point regarding the tire temperature. However it's not the first time incidents like the one on SC occur. Last year on WE1 similar incidents occurred, for instance. The 'shouldn't be hard at all', already proved to be hard enough.
Apparently it is needed to define more in detail what can be done, and what can't be done during a formation lap. As I recall it correctly, it was also you who ask for FrankMD's tool, which essentially entails the same functionality as the additional rule?

As said the SC will carry a higher speed till the moment single line will flow into a dual line, which should allow teams to build up more tire temperature. On a second note we are also looking into a suggestion made, to include a warming up lap before the formation lap, but we are still examining that.

Quote :

Tire heating is strongly limited to small, predictable movements, within that half a car frame. We will also increase the speed of the safety car on the straights to increase the tire temperature under braking.

Good luck reviewing all the complaints the teams supply against each other when they notice that the other one had more temp in their tires and whether he kept the heating in those restrictions you said (predictable/half car frame). This it is what youre basically asking for with rules like this. And tire temperatures dont really increase that much under the brakings unless you want us to flatspot them =)

Quote :

On a second note we are also looking into a suggestion made, to include a warming up lap before the formation lap, but we are still examining that.

Thats just ridiculous. Nobody wants to do 2 slow laps in the tracks like ASGP(atleast I wouldnt), and actually it just increases the chance that somethin happens during those laps which you now try to prevent.

What is so hard about a formation lap? Why people dont get they dont have to be on the bumper of the car in front the whole lap is beyond me. You can leave 5 car lengths to the car in front and you could be driving backwards without endangering anyone, its the stubornness of being glued to the preceding car AND weaving to heat up what causes accidents.

Just leave enough room up to last sector and everyone would be fine. If someone messes up just penalize the crap out of the idiot and he'll be more careful next time.

Common sense both admins and drivers, anyone?

Quote from Bawbag :

Why don't we just introduce that each car must have a gap of about 5 car lengths to the car infront and we wouldn't be having any of these problems?

I have the feeling this suggestion has been overlooked by the admins? I really don't see any problems with going with this approach.

Quote from BurnOut69 :

Just leave enough room up to last sector and everyone would be fine. If someone messes up just penalize the crap out of the idiot and he'll be more careful next time.

Lol, nicely put

+1 for both

Quote from Bawbag :

@ d1, when I say 5 car lengths I mean just for the single file traffic while everyone is warming there tyres, but when it goes to double file we just use the exact same format that were on. It's like driving IRL in the rain, you allways leave a much larger gap for stopping than you do in the dry, shouldn't be hard at all.

Ye, you're right. If everyone just lines up at the end of the lap it's basicly like it was, but safer. :P

Post some ideas on how to make it better. The current system has prooven to be useless with people driving 10cm behind each other and waving around. Even if there was more space between the cars people would simply floor the gas, ignore all kind of flags and still crash into the car infront.

If we say we allow half a lap (or till the 2nd split) and slow down there people will crash there as they don't "expect" cars to be slow there...

We could say don't go higher than 3rd gear in formation lap, but I don't think it would help much.

Quote from three_jump :

Post some ideas on how to make it better. The current system has prooven to be useless with people driving 10cm behind each other and waving around. Even if there was more space between the cars people would simply floor the gas, ignore all kind of flags and still crash into the car infront.

If we say we allow half a lap (or till the 2nd split) and slow down there people will crash there as they don't "expect" cars to be slow there...

We could say don't go higher than 3rd gear in formation lap, but I don't think it would help much.

DT people drive too fast or too close behind someone?

Problem is defining what is 'too fast', since people are gonna have as many opinions as accidents happen

I guess InSim is the answer.

Quote from Darkone55 :

DT people drive too fast or too close behind someone?

I dunno if that can be done via an insim tool which checks speed for each driver and auto-dts him. But I don't think that this would be a good solution either.

Well, like Ray said. 5 cars distance minimum. And say maximum 120 kph/75 mph

It would only cause problems when something happens, then you need to check who's fault it was, which you can do in the replay. But with these rules, things should be a lot safer.
Not that every car can't do 121 kph or 4.9 cars distance on the one ahead, it's just there to make things safe. Who cares if someone does a bit faster, as long as it doesn't cause dangerous situations.

I'm sorry, but why don't the MOE admins seem open for suggestions?
Imo this is A LOT safer then cold tyres...

Quote from AppiePils :

As I recall it correctly, it was also you who ask for FrankMD's tool, which essentially entails the same functionality as the additional rule?

What? Franks tool just simply told us which side we should be starting on and would position us in the correct formation, never did it have anything to do with not heating the tyres.

Once again, the reason for the crashes at south city is shown in the attatched jpegs, to begin with the SC car was doing ~95mph, also in the middle sector it reaches this speed, now logic would say that it would also hold this speed on the back straight.

So, two new rules that would sort this out and keep the tyre warming?

1. Set a speed for the safety car to stick to on straights, for example 100mph is more than enough (About 160kph)
2. Keep atleast 5 cars lengths to the car infront.

I don't know why the SC slowed down so early on South city, whether it was to let the recent time out people catch up I don't know, but it never usually slows down untill the last corner which is more than enough time for people to get into formation.

You guys are penialising the drivers because of what happend at South City, but it wasn't just the fault of the drivers.

Quote from Bawbag :

What? Franks tool just simply told us which side we should be starting on and would position us in the correct formation, never did it have anything to do with not heating the tyres.

Once again, the reason for the crashes at south city is shown in the attatched jpegs, to begin with the SC car was doing ~95mph, also in the middle sector it reaches this speed, now logic would say that it would also hold this speed on the back straight.

Logic says that the third sector is being used to go from a single line formation to a dual line formation, and as so, speed is being lowered. Granted this should be announced by one of the admins on the server, however people should expect that at any time there will be a change to a dual line. In your last picture Jonsey has about 5 car lengths to the guy in front of him, and apparently still got involved in an accident. However given the discussion, we change the rule to the following change of rule:

Occasion: Editted Rule
Where: 8. Starting Procedure
What:

Quote :

* In all but the last sector teams are expected to leave a gap of approximately 5 cars between their car and the car ahead. In the final sector, single formation will be transferred into dual file formation. In the dual formation teams are expected to allow about half a car length between the car in front, and the car next to him.

Reasoning: The above should be a compromise between tire heating and a safe starting procedure.
Outcome: Drivers who fail to follow the above guidelines can be protested and are subject to penalty. The type of penalty depends on the severity and impact of the offense.

Quote from Bawbag :

Once again, the reason for the crashes at south city is shown in the attatched jpegs, to begin with the SC car was doing ~95mph, also in the middle sector it reaches this speed, now logic would say that it would also hold this speed on the back straight.

Quote from The Rules :

* MoE races will use a rolling start. A pace car will lead the field during the formation lap at a reduced speed. Drivers are to run in single file until the last sector, when the pace car will slow to 80kph in order to allow drivers to catch up and assume a double-file formation. When the pace car pulls into the pits, the leader continues at 80kph. A race marshal will give the green flag signal, at which point the race has begun. Passing is not allowed before the green flag is given.

Do you need to drive in manual?

No Automatic is mandatory of course.

Quote from CSF :

No Automatic is mandatory of course.

And chase view.

so can you or not?

i dont want sarcastic comments

Somehow I doubt it somehow. Why, you thinking of entering with some team?

Quote from Tur8o :

so can you or not?

i dont want sarcastic comments

There's no rule concerning which type of gearbox you have to use, so if you wanted to you could use an automatic. However, automatic gearboxes are slower and generally more difficult to use (they can unpredictably downchange in some cases).