Quote from Hyperactive :

Maybe people get more close races in TBO class simply because of the slower
speeds so you can actually drive (...)

I think you can stop there. Simply because most people CAN drive them
whereas a lot of people that are in faster cars can't. They are in the seat,
they even have the steering wheel in hand, but it's not 'driving', at least,
not yet. The lower speeds means more people can connect with LFS and
race at the limit imo.

The limit is also 'wider' and more forgiving so less people end up in the sand
pits. You actually have time to be scared of the sand pits, panic, start
braking, realise there's still a chance, get back in line and touch the grass
slightly on your way to the next turn. In the GTRs, although you can actually
change direction and correct faster, you also have less time to react.
I know a few turns that i take 'full-out' in the GTRs, it's the kind of turn where
you either make it or you don't, you'll know once the car starts turning, or
not. If you hook in the right line, you'll be ok, else, prepare to minimise
damage, because you WILL go off. This can cost a lot of time in itself.

Damage also reduces performance. Being able to keep the car on the road
means you also get better performance (actually, you maintain peak
performance). Again, TBO has lower damage impacts in general so the
performance difference is smaller than in a GTR race, or worse, a Formula
race. This is considering no one is perfect and you'll go off a few times.
I know some are maniacs that can do the same perfect lap over and over,
but most can't. Add to that the unpredictable nature of a race and you're
sure to see people go off at LEAST once per race.

Then there's the obvious, TBO has been around for a lot more time so most
of us have a lot more practice with them and only have to adjust to the
tires or suspension depending on the patch whereas the GTRs are still
relatively new. I'm sure in a year or two, GTRs will be just like TBO
competition wise.

Funnybone, sorry if I sounded like saying the cars are just easy to drive and stuff, because they aren't. I just wanted to say that because the speeds ARE slower than in faster classes, you get more time to react and driving closer to others IS easier. It's much harder to be side by side in AS historic in the big gtrs than in GTTs.

And compare this to your post:

Quote :

"Maybe people (maybe?) get more close races in TBO class simply because of the slower speeds so you can actually drive closer and for longer times? And the cars aren't so powerful that you can immediatelly use other people's mistakes to pass 'em..."

My closest races ever in S2 were done in the uf1000, i think it's becase it's so easy to get to 1 sec from wr and ppl do so everyone is at the same speed, plus it is a chalange to drive it, u have to get every line perfect cause u don't have a lot of hp to work with, second to it i like the TBO as close racing, gtr are too fast on small mystake and youre out, one small slide and the tyres are gone, i'm not a perfect driver so u can see where i'm going at.

If you have tried to race with FXR only, its pretty fun. Close fast racing.
The MRT5 in S1 was really fun. Very close racing.


In S2, I think the FOX could give some fast close racing. But the TBO class still kicks arse.

I think it also depends a lot on the track you are racing. I.e. when i started to race in the ESCC (GTR's) the first race was on WE Int, there you had a good chance to overtake someone on the start/finish line cause it's long and you could slipstream to pass. Then again later we had a race on Kyoto nat in which i've got stuck behind a slower car but no matter what i've done i never was in the position to overtake but still it was challenging to try (at the end i overtook him but with a risky manoeuver). Last race was on Fe Green which was pretty difficult to overtake someone with the gtr's don't know perhaps cause of the short starights. But i must admit in the league i'm often involved
in close fights. On the other hand on public servers the only challenge i have is when i start from behind (exception is when there are fast drivers on it and most of them also drive leagues). So in my opinion GTR's are great fun if you drive in a league where the drivers are all skilled ones but on public servers the gap is sometimes that huge between drivers so that you sometimes drive many laps without any fighting.

Slower cars allow more time to think about strategy also. When you are in a train in the GTR cars, sometimes everything moves too fast for you to make the split second decision about going inside or out side on someone. This can lead to catastroffic errors and bent cars. In the slower cars, you have a little bit more time to decide correctly.

Quote from LRB_Aly :

On the other hand on public servers the only challenge i have is when i start from behind

That's why I always set the start order to REVERSE on servers where I have the admin pass. Everytime there are a lot of people and it's great fun! Also when racing on other servers, once I get to start from the first row, I jump to the pits and start from there, because I don't like "hotlapping" on the first position...

Scawen, please would it be possible to set the REVERSE starting order as default? IMO not many people change the default dedi-server settings and with the reverse starting order there is much more fun and a bigger challenge in the races...

Quote from Chaos :

Scawen, please would it be possible to set the REVERSE starting order as default? IMO not many people change the default dedi-server settings and with the reverse starting order there is much more fun and a bigger challenge in the races...

Dunno if that's a good idea. I remember my first online race in a FOX, my plan was to hang at the back of the pack and stay out of trouble.

When the race started I found myself in pole position with 20 odd angry FOXs revving behind me. I quite simply freaked out.

It is good for experienced racers, but can suck arese for newbies who want to stay clear of trouble.

Yeah I don't mind being at the back when I know I'm fast but if I'm new to the combo I certainly don't want to start at the front!

i usually spectate and join at the last second when its a non reverse server, that will sort you out (and get u in last) starting at the front is boring and is for hotlappers. on the whole, GTR racing is alot cleaner than FOX, so it would deffo be good.

Quote from Chaos :

Scawen, please would it be possible to set the REVERSE starting order as default? IMO not many people change the default dedi-server settings and with the reverse starting order there is much more fun and a bigger challenge in the races...

As farcar has already said, that's not a good idea in a very big way.

Sometimes, if I'm one of the medium to quick guys on a track (although the latter only ever applies on AS3 so far) when there's a reverse starting grid, having to fight your way through those who wreck and generally can't drive without clobbering another car nearby is a guaranteed way to ruin a race and make folk desert a server. (Note that I'm not saying newbies shouldn't be online, as the learning curve is so much faster online - just that they shouldn't be at the head of the grid).

Othertimes (i.e. most circuits except AS3) I'm one of the slow guys - I know I'm slow, and the last thing I want is to be starting at the front of the grid. I'd much rather start from the back if I'm slow and be able to learn from following people, rather than be punted off at T1 by two or three frustrated hotlappers with little or no racing etiquette.

But back on topic, I think the popularity of the GTR class over TBO is most likely a temporary thing. TBO might never be as popular as GTR, as the faster, more exciting, more challenging cars will probably always attract more people; but I suspect the novelty value of GTR is making it extremely popular at the moment. And eventually folk will realise that there's other car classes that offer a different challenge, too.

Quote from STROBE :

But back on topic, I think the popularity of the GTR class over TBO is most likely a temporary thing. TBO might never be as popular as GTR, as the faster, more exciting, more challenging cars will probably always attract more people; but I suspect the novelty value of GTR is making it extremely popular at the moment. And eventually folk will realise that there's other car classes that offer a different challenge, too.

It's already happening as I predicted in another thread. More people are racing the other classes everyday. Still hard to find, but it's getting more and more prevelent.

I like to drive the GTR class cars, but the aerodynamics bugs just kill the fun of the races. Specially the slipstream bug (it's simply too exagerated on GTR cars, you can see on real races drivers going much closer than you can in LFS, on LFS you need to be too far from the car in front of you or else you loose a lot of grip and spin).


So, we on brazilian league decided to go with the TBO cars for our first championship, and we had some very nice fights for positions on the first races.

i dont think its really that much off from real life. i see the same stuff happening in super GT. the only reason alot of people dont drive as close is simply an issue of skill mostly...

Quote from Gabkicks :

i dont think its really that much off from real life. i see the same stuff happening in super GT.

It seems pretty off to me. On AS3 in the GTRs I can exit the chicane and draft past the car in front, who will then tuck in behind me and draft past again, followed by me tucking in behind him and getting a draft so that we're side-by-side into T1. In real life I've never seen two cars draft each other three times in the space of one straight/such short time.

Problem with the drafting is that it doesn't feel progresisve enough - it's like hitting a "push to pass" button. I'd expect the drafting to be ever so slight at first, you just notice the increased acceleration and a slight gain on the car ahead, with the effect more and more pronounced as you close on the car in front. Instead it feels like you get nothing at first, then suddenly the whole draft effect is applied instantly.

Quote from Gabkicks :

i dont think its really that much off from real life. i see the same stuff happening in super GT. the only reason alot of people dont drive as close is simply an issue of skill mostly...

I tend to agree, I couldn't say if it is completely right, I suspect it isn't but recently I was in some FOX races at BL1 and I could stay close to a leading car through corners just by adjusting for the loss of grip.

How about the difference between close racing and passing?

My stance is that there is way more passing in TBO races compared to GTR/Formula races. I suppose mainly because of the lower speeds down the straights and longer braking zones. The margins in all aspects of TBO racing are larger. I love it though. It can be exciting stuff.

You could even bring lag into the equation; in slower cars it's less likely to cause a massive lag crash. For example, you're not going to approach another car in the slipstream as quickly for them to lag, then appear in your cockpit a few dozen milliseconds later.

Quote from STROBE :

It seems pretty off to me. On AS3 in the GTRs I can exit the chicane and draft past the car in front, who will then tuck in behind me and draft past again, followed by me tucking in behind him and getting a draft so that we're side-by-side into T1. In real life I've never seen two cars draft each other three times in the space of one straight/such short time.

Problem with the drafting is that it doesn't feel progresisve enough - it's like hitting a "push to pass" button. I'd expect the drafting to be ever so slight at first, you just notice the increased acceleration and a slight gain on the car ahead, with the effect more and more pronounced as you close on the car in front. Instead it feels like you get nothing at first, then suddenly the whole draft effect is applied instantly.

true...

and i this happens with all cars... with GTi u can gain almost 10km/h drafting... lol

with a gtr u can draft 3 times at as nat/hist/gp, or on ky national, for example...

personaly as a whole i think the draft is way to strong up close and way to weak after a little distance

Close racing without a doubt! Keeps me on edge and close competition is great.

A great session tonight on the DPRT server made me think of this ye olde thread. I've never seen GTR or open wheeler racing as close as this packed grid of TBOs.

The racing was amazing as was the driving etiquette.
Lap times were not a factor, this was all about racing smarts, not hot laps.
Although there was a bit of carnage, all racers showed great respect for each other, trying to avoid contact as much as possible.
Bring on the TBO renaissance!

Here is but one eample:

There are battles all over the place, but the battle for the lead rages on till the end while the battle for 5th goes nuts behind them.

I think both suck pretty bad unless you choose the cheesemobile. GTR class is pure FZR domination and TBO is 100% FXO domination.

Quote from spankmeyer :

TBO is 100% FXO domination.

They might win but I'll be having more fun in my GTT. And I'll be safe in knowning my drivetrain layout is righteous and just.

Quote from spankmeyer :

I think both suck pretty bad unless you choose the cheesemobile. GTR class is pure FZR domination and TBO is 100% FXO domination.

Did you watch the replay? We all know about the dominance of certain vehicles. I was talking about racing!

Quote from spankmeyer :

I think both suck pretty bad unless you choose the cheesemobile. GTR class is pure FZR domination and TBO is 100% FXO domination.

I have had several sessions (each over a couple of days) on the CEROLAG server, racing the TBO classes at Aston Club, FE Green, and KY GP Long. They always use a rule of having FXO drivers carry a passenger in front. This seems to even out the performance of the FXO relative to the XRT, with the RB4 lagging behind as usual. I have found that even though this class is slower and maybe not as exciting on your own, these cars require a lot of planning and control to make them fast, as they are NOT race cars. This is even more important when you are beside someone, as it requires a different corner entry and throttle control to make a clean pass and still be somewhat fast. These cars are a great challenge, regardless of their relative speed.