Left 4 Dead
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(37 posts, started )
Quote from S14 DRIFT :There were dynamic lights in HL2 iirc? It's been ages since I played so can't really remember. HL2 came out like 2 years ago or something? so yeh

Well so I think you missed a lot of new features implemented to the engine since then (I'll just say the overall, check Valve's developer wiki for a more detailed list of changes):

Lost Coast implemented HDR, texture optimization, reflections and a few new effects they were testing for upcoming games
Episode One implemented a much more optimized HDR and a lot of new effects and texture maps
Episode Two with dynamic shadows for the flashlight, new and better optimized environment lights, NPC (AI) improvements, optimized the whole engine so it's better for PCs to run, better texture maps, optimized HDR and bloom, best use of Pixel Shaders and optimized online gameplay and servers, optimized engine physics allowing a whole lot more objects to be drawn on the screen and also physics colliding, etc.
Left 4 Dead implemented dynamic shadows and lightining for the whole environment, the AI Director, better AI, engine optimized for running a lot of enemies without losing FPS, colliding physics optimized, dynamic map physics optimized for map destroying (tank), etc.

About physics colliding: in Garry's Mod 10 (Source 2004, Half-Life 2) for example if a lot of objects (about 100) collided togheter they would get stuck and wouldn't move if you didn't remove some of the objects. GMod 11 now (Source 2007, HL2 Episode Two) allows more than 900 objects without getting stuck, it can be A LOT more depending of the computer of course. Garry has plans to change GMod to the new Source building (l4d) but there's no release date for that.
:o Oh, sounds like they have been busy after all

I might check it out, but until further notice, Source engine still sucks
Quote from S14 DRIFT ::o Oh, sounds like they have been busy after all

I might check it out, but until further notice, Source engine still sucks

No it doesnt. Source engine was one of the best and still be.

It is so stable and you can always play with a budget card.
Of course, everyone is running around on ATi x1300's and nVidia 6200 now aren't they.
If anyone wants to have a game with me, my steam is diekolkrabe
Quote from S14 DRIFT :Of course, everyone is running around on ATi x1300's and nVidia 6200 now aren't they.

Actually the big majority of Valve's customers have high-end computers (check Steam Stats Page), yet Valve still make their games playable for everybody else with mainstream and low-end computers. A friend of mine has a intel graphics integrated card (onboard) with 96MB shared memory, 256MB RAM DDR333Mhz, HD 40GB and Pentium 4 processor 2.8Ghz and amazingly he can run Half-Life2 and Half-Life2 Episode One (640x480 and everything on low/off, but he can still run and that is just incredible).
He can also play HL2 Episode Two but it has bigger slowdowns in some parts when playing online (not lag, just something with his PC). Still playable thought.
My comment was sarcasm, if you didn't catch it. I agree, allow low end settings for people with shit rigs, but don't make us (the majority of the PC gaming community) with semi decent rigs to suffer playing games with shit effects.
Quote from S14 DRIFT :My comment was sarcasm, if you didn't catch it. I agree, allow low end settings for people with shit rigs, but don't make us (the majority of the PC gaming community) with semi decent rigs to suffer playing games with shit effects.

Ah got it now
Well did you see my Left 4 Dead screenshots? Valve's really doing high quality effects for their games. So I don't see the point in your comment ("but don't make us with semi decent rigs to suffer playing games with shit effects.")
Some more screenshots for you. (now Half-Life 2 Episode Two, and the last screenshot from Episode One)

Thing is: Source is incredibly well optimized. Awesome graphics and use of HDR and Pixel shader but still highly optimized too.

(Sorry if you guys think I am uploading too many screenshots it's just that I don't have any better place to put them if necessary I'll remove 'em later)
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Quote :I reckon in Ep 3 we're going to get the first first-person kiss in a (mainstream) game.

That's one design innovation I'm not looking forward to.

edit:

With any Source released game I can generally expect smooth and hassle free performance, which is always a bonus these days. In terms of wow factor, I thought EP2 was a little behind the curve on other games which were released around the same time.
Quote from DieKolkrabe :t does get frustrating, for instance at the end of a few sections, you'll come up against a Tank, which is basically walking mass of muscle that can kill you with his tits

Seriously, that's how I first misread the last bit.
Quote from Velociround :Ah got it now
Well did you see my Left 4 Dead screenshots? Valve's really doing high quality effects for their games. So I don't see the point in your comment ("but don't make us with semi decent rigs to suffer playing games with shit effects.")
Some more screenshots for you. (now Half-Life 2 Episode Two, and the last screenshot from Episode One)

Thing is: Source is incredibly well optimized. Awesome graphics and use of HDR and Pixel shader but still highly optimized too.

(Sorry if you guys think I am uploading too many screenshots it's just that I don't have any better place to put them if necessary I'll remove 'em later)

I'll conceed, yes, the lighting effects are pretty modern and high quality, (but after all, how long and how many chances have they had to optimize their HDR and Pixel Shader, however both of which are now expected in any sort of serious modern game) but look at the quality of the actual textures being used and you'll maybe see what I mean.

Yes, they're better(ish) than in HL2 on it's own, but still in my eyes, it's not really enough to be like "zomg gfx!1q1!" about it
Quote from S14 DRIFT :I'll conceed, yes, the lighting effects are pretty modern and high quality, [...] but look at the quality of the actual textures being used and you'll maybe see what I mean.

Yes, they're better(ish) than in HL2 on it's own, but still in my eyes, it's not really enough to be like "zomg gfx!1q1!" about it

Seriously, who cares about textures nowadays?
Look at Crysis. It has ultrazomgplus resolution textures. So? Ok, 91 out of 100 metascore. Seems great, doesn't it? Look! It has received 3 maximum (100) scores! And the users rating is 7.7 out of 10. Well, let's look at Half-Life 1. Yes, I'm comparing a 1998's game with a 2007's one. Half-Life 1 has 96 metascore. How many maximum scores? 9. You think it has received this score because of textures? I don't think so. Users rating: 9.1 out of 10.

Now take a look at Crysis: Warhead, the second game of the trilogy Crysis. Oh, well, 84 metascore. Users rating: 8.2 out of 10 metascore. How many maximum scores? None. Still incredible quality textures, doesn't it? That's not what I call improvement.
Let's look now to Half-Life 2, the second game of the Half-Life series. 96 metascore. How many maximum scores? 31. Now that's what I call improvement! And you know what? Half-life and Half-life 2 have the best rating ever received for a PC game. Yes, a 1998's and a 2004's game wit ... heir versions to computer. And not only to PC, Half-Life 2 has also this same rating for the console: 96, even thought it's a First Person Shooter and you don't have a mouse to control it.
Maybe now that GTA IV is coming to PC, Half-Life 2 is going to be on the second place in this rating. But again, hey, look! GTA IV doesn't have high resolution textures and has 98 metascore for PS3 and [url=]Xbox360[/url], it actually even look low resolution in some screens and in the game, specially the world textures. And I really don't think it's going to have ultrazomgresolution textures in its version for PC.

Pos__Game_______________________Year__ Metascore

1st____Half-Life 2__________________2004__ 96
2nd____Out of the Park Baseball 2007*_2007__ 96
3rd____Orange Box, The_____________2007__ 96
4th____Half-Life____________________1998__96
5th____BioShock___________________2007__ 96
50th___Crysis______________________2007__ 91
271th__Crysis Warhead______________2008__ 84

PS: "Out of the park baseball 2007" is a game I personally don't know, rated only by 9 reviews, that's why it has that great overall rating. I believe that most people (including me) just ignore this one since you can't tell a game is great because 9 reviews said so. Half-Life 2 was rated on 81 reviews, Crysis on 56 reviews, GTA IV on 85 reviews and so on.
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You definitely can't say Left 4 Dead is using Half-Life 2's engine. It uses Source 2008 build 47 engine and it is a whole lot different. It's a new game. Everything changed, not even my short things list can tell the differences.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :(but after all, how long and how many chances have they had to optimize their HDR and Pixel Shader, however both of which are now expected in any sort of serious modern game)

Actually, Valve has a lot of things to do besides making games. Valve not only makes the game, it also keeps everything up-to-date, changes engine code, optimizes the engine, the way maps are done, and every single time they make a new game they also release the Source Software Development Kit for the new build of the engine so developers can make the best of their maps, make mods, create models, animations and everything. Valve games are updated a lot more than any other games, and it's not just fixing things, it includes adding new and custom content with no additional cost. Valve updates STEAM, the Store and their servers for storing games for fast downloading, demos, HD videos, mods, etc.

Quote from Takumi_lfs :Is there a way to buy from steam with a debitcard(Maestro)?

I dont have paypal.

I don't know about debit cards, but MasterCard credit cards are allowed on steam, just check Store page within steam or you can also buy it from the website: [url]http://www.steampowered.com[/url] . Try buying the game with your card, it'll show you everything you need .
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Left 4 Dead
(37 posts, started )
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