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Formula Two to make FIA return
(19 posts, started )
Formula Two to make FIA return
I was just reading up on this not too long ago

http://www.formulatwo.com/

Apparently the same guy who is running the Formula Palmer Audi series will be running this series as well and will have a similar format(driver training, equal cars, etc).

Quote :The FIA’s overall concern was that the cost of competing in motor racing at a level to progress directly to Formula 1 today is so high that it prevents many talented drivers from having the opportunity to participate. Compared to rival series, Formula Two will cost significantly less per season whilst allowing drivers to prove their skill and develop their racecraft in identical 1.8-litre Audi-powered turbocharged vehicles, designed by a six man team from Williams F1, led by Director of Engineering Patrick Head.

I can't really explain everything here so I strongly suggest you check the website out. Thoughts?
hehe old news

good idea, good timing, but in the cold hard reality the rich kids will always have an advantage!
#3 - 5haz
If there was such a thing as communist motor racing, this would be it.
I still haven't found anything on a driver testing restriction which would be vital in making it an equal oppurtunity class.
Quote from Intrepid :I still haven't found anything on a driver testing restriction which would be vital in making it an equal oppurtunity class.

Found it.....

Quote :There will be three exclusive official F2 test days before the season starts and another two during the season, as follows:
Pre season
May 5 - Snetterton
May 6 - Snetterton
May 18 - Silverstone GP
Mid season
July 7 - Brands Hatch
August (date TBC) - Donington Park
At each of these tests a maximum of 300km may be undertaken.
Testing will also be possible at MSV’s Bedford Autodrome test circuit. This will be restricted to the opportunity for 50km shakedown tests before any event and a maximum of 1000km in the 2009 season.

That isn't what I was looking for. WHat's stopping a more wealthy driver buying their own similar F2 car, and same data system and going testing?

I know certain 'well-known' drivers already do this and the results speak for themselves.

Some say a different car isn't useful to test in, but in comparison with having no car to test in it's obvious which one is more beneficial.

This idea that less wealthy drivers have a greater oppurtunity isn't as clear cut as F2 make out.

I think F2 is coming at the right time. GP2 and other series have always been illusions in terms of driving ability, but I have my doubts that F2 will actually achieve the desired results.
Whoops sorry my bad,

I'm trying to find the actual rules and regs back can't find them at the moment.
Quote :Event Format

At each event there will be the following sessions:

Practice 1 30 minutes
Practice 2 30 minutes
Qualifying 1 30 minutes
Qualifying 2 30 minutes
Race 1 40 minutes (110km)
Race 2 40 minutes (110km with pit stop)

In Race 2 it is planned that there will be a mandatory pit stop. Pit stops are a crucial part of F1 and it is considered that F2 can provide some valuable experience for the drivers on in-lap and out-lap pace, together with accuracy of positioning in the pit box and pit getaways.

No tyre changes will be required, as it is unnecessary and in F2 it would be wrong for a driver's result to be influenced by his pit crew.

Cars will be required to be stationary for a minimum of 10 seconds. On stopping, the driver must push a button to start the timer. A green light will illuminate after 10 seconds and the driver may leave the pit stop. The driver may make any changes to the set up he chooses during the stop.

strange thing of a madentory pitstop
Quote from TFalke55 :strange thing of a madentory pitstop

they are trying to 'train' drivers for F1
Quote from Intrepid :That isn't what I was looking for. WHat's stopping a more wealthy driver buying their own similar F2 car, and same data system and going testing?

I know certain 'well-known' drivers already do this and the results speak for themselves.

It is pretty easy for the FIA to ban people from testing at FIA certified venues. I know of a pair of Formula BMW drivers being banned from taking part in an endurance event in a GT car on a different layout of a track which Formula BMW had a round at.

If you start getting silly with building carbon copies of cars (because Williams sure as hell are not going to sell you one) and using private test tracks it would be far easier to just buy a drive in F1.
Quote from ajp71 :It is pretty easy for the FIA to ban people from testing at FIA certified venues. I know of a pair of Formula BMW drivers being banned from taking part in an endurance event in a GT car on a different layout of a track which Formula BMW had a round at.

If you start getting silly with building carbon copies of cars (because Williams sure as hell are not going to sell you one) and using private test tracks it would be far easier to just buy a drive in F1.

There are PLENTY of drivers that do 'secret' testing and get away with it. People with money will go to extraordinary lengths to gain an advantage.

You don't have to build carbon copies of the car just purchase a similar spec one and fit it with the same data system as used in F2.

History is littered with so called 'hard done by' racers who when you look closely weren't being completely honest. Which s fair enough, you HAVE to do what it takes.

With the stakes so high in Formula 2 it will be worth the effort.

The only trouble F2 has is that Formula 1 teams are having to compromise with drivers now because of the oncoming recession and less money splashing about.

The new rule appearing - one good driver, one sponsor driver. Is it just a coincidence that the only 3 drivers in with a shout for the Honda driver for 09 are Brazilian, and that Honda have just landed a deal with Petrobras? I think not! Di Grassi and Bruno both have a grand total of 0 championships in cars together.

So it's all getting a little bit more complicated!
Of course one can drive a similar car on a completely different track (most likely an airfield seeing as there are very few totally independent circuits). The cost of doing so would be huge and there would probably be about as much benefit as doing a track day in a road car or playing with one of your pedal karts. This is not going to be the only route into F1 and those with large wallets will still be able to buy a drive in the best car in conventional formulae and then put enough up front to get themselves into an F1 drive, like countless others have done before them.
Quote from Intrepid :There are PLENTY of drivers that do 'secret' testing and get away with it. People with money will go to extraordinary lengths to gain an advantage.

You don't have to build carbon copies of the car just purchase a similar spec one and fit it with the same data system as used in F2.

History is littered with so called 'hard done by' racers who when you look closely weren't being completely honest. Which s fair enough, you HAVE to do what it takes.

With the stakes so high in Formula 2 it will be worth the effort.

The only trouble F2 has is that Formula 1 teams are having to compromise with drivers now because of the oncoming recession and less money splashing about.

The new rule appearing - one good driver, one sponsor driver. Is it just a coincidence that the only 3 drivers in with a shout for the Honda driver for 09 are Brazilian, and that Honda have just landed a deal with Petrobras? I think not! Di Grassi and Bruno both have a grand total of 0 championships in cars together.

So it's all getting a little bit more complicated!

I doubt any of this will happen as it will require too much investment with minimum gain.

Your talking in the 10s of millions here and for a catagory like this its completely pointless imo.
Wow Jonathon Palmer Is going big now..

Just watch out fo Jolyon Palmer... Wont be 2 long until he is in F1 Taking after his dad
Quote from Mustafur :I doubt any of this will happen as it will require too much investment with minimum gain.

Your talking in the 10s of millions here and for a catagory like this its completely pointless imo.

Drivers, and parents will spend millions in karting so spending a few more in F2 is hardly a stretch! Considering F2s exposure, and prize no doubt it will be on the list of many drivers ambitions
Quote from Intrepid :Drivers, and parents will spend millions in karting so spending a few more in F2 is hardly a stretch! Considering F2s exposure, and prize no doubt it will be on the list of many drivers ambitions

Millions in karting? You've got to be having a laugh. There's no doubt it is possible to buy a seat in F1, anybody will take you if you put enough cash upfront, especially in an economic down turn. It simply doesn't make sense putting silly amounts to win one particular formula.
Quote from ajp71 :Millions in karting? You've got to be having a laugh. There's no doubt it is possible to buy a seat in F1, anybody will take you if you put enough cash upfront, especially in an economic down turn. It simply doesn't make sense putting silly amounts to win one particular formula.

Yes millions in karting! Over the whole career of a driver from age 8-18yr millions would have have spent. In KF3 and KF2 seasonal budgets of £250k are easily achieved. A driver will compete in several championships during a year. Even in Cadets 8-12 yearly budgets of £50-60k are not uncommon.

For example

WSK
European Championships
World Cup + qualifiers
Asia-Pacific
Super 1
etc...

The top drivers will be testing once or twice a week and racing quite a few weekends of the year. With the constant development push regarding chassis/engines you have to keep up. In recent years it has become quite a stretch on the wallet if you want to compete at that level (new 'cost-cutting' regs didn't help). Your literally travelling all over the world so you have travel expenses, hotel expenses... it racks up over the years.


Of course not all spend that kind of cash, but you want me to give you the EXACT expenses I will but it's all very boring!

Why is this relevant. It shows what lengths people will go to in motorsport.

Formula 2 does provide a platform to F1. It's already gained a lot of attention. I can VERY easily see people spending SIGNIFICANT sums in Formula 2 trying to find an advantage. People get money by being ruthless in the first place, it's in their very nature, and they will be ruthless about how they gain an advantage.

A Williams F1 test, and a Super Licence can be earned in F2. It HAS the credentials!
Quote from Intrepid :There are PLENTY of drivers that do 'secret' testing and get away with it. People with money will go to extraordinary lengths to gain an advantage.

You don't have to build carbon copies of the car just purchase a similar spec one and fit it with the same data system as used in F2.

History is littered with so called 'hard done by' racers who when you look closely weren't being completely honest. Which s fair enough, you HAVE to do what it takes.

With the stakes so high in Formula 2 it will be worth the effort.

Well, a "similar spec" car won't yield the same data or driver feel, so any results with a "similar spec" car will be practically worthless. You may as well hammer around in a Caterham.

And what business will splash out great big sums of money for a driver competing in an apparently budget category? If the category budget is 200,000 Euros, a sponsor isn't going to cough up 500,000. And hardly any driver will have 200,000 sitting in their back pocket. The fact is, the vast majority of drivers getting in F2 will need sponsorships to enter it, even if they happen to come from rich families or have a big nest egg, and no business is naive enough to throw more money at drivers than what they really need (if there are any such businesses, they deserve to go out of business).
Quote from Intrepid :Yes millions in karting! Over the whole career of a driver from age 8-18yr millions would have have spent. In KF3 and KF2 seasonal budgets of £250k are easily achieved. A driver will compete in several championships during a year. Even in Cadets 8-12 yearly budgets of £50-60k are not uncommon.

You know perfectly well it is conventional to talk about budgets per year not over a career. The yearly budget is going to be enormous just to produce a similar car (seeing as about the closest thing is a FPA which you won't get your hands near), a million pounds is pretty optimistic to produce such a car, that's before you get to running costs or the fact that you will be barred from all race circuits.

Formula Two to make FIA return
(19 posts, started )
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