Quote from Gizz :

i think thats were he is getting confused, 0 camber in the setup (slider) doesnt mean the car will roll out with 0 camber, as stated above live camber shows this, so if you want your car to run "true" 0 camber go off your "live camber" information...

Thanks, I was confused, so I should look at live camber now

Quote from mrodgers :

This has confused me ever since going from racing NR2003 to LFS.

What even more confuses me is different tyres have different optimum camber setting. While 5 to 10 may be a general guideline, but I don't know the theory supported it... I still don't know how to find the optimum camber. I just wonder what the real world is using, whether a different in tyre temperature above 15C to 20C will blow your tyre up after a couples of laps

If people use excessive camber to gain speed, it may also show the pitfall of the tyre model in LFS, while I am not an expertise in this area, Gaining lateral grip in corner without losing too much longitunel grip in acc and brake is not quite right. If this is true, real driver will use extremely negative camber for qualifying !! as again, if you have a chance to watch onboard F1 camber, this is not true

For example in http://www.remoracing.com.au/products/mg_tyre_tips.php
they said "In general, we have found the best settings for maximum performance and tyre life is to set your toe-in to zero, and set your camber so that the temperature across the tyre tread is fairly equal. If your front tyres are overheating, reducing caster may help."

Last edited by benoityip, Wed, 5 Dec 2007 05:48.

Quote from geeman1 :

0 camber and steering angle set to 13 degrees? That's crazy.
Atleast set some negative camber, then you will have more grip on the corners and then use more steering angle so you can turn more sharply.

That is not what I mean, I want to lower the exterior temperature and interior temperture around 4 to 8C, 0 camber gives me the answer, I know it is crazy, that's why I ask, if I set to -1, the difference in tyre temperature is greater than 10, which I think it is crazy as well.... I use 13 for steering angle, because I am using a momo wheel (not g25, in g25, i may probably set to 24, and g25 got a way larger steering angle), you can also tell in real life by watching F1 onboard camera how much steering they use

Anyway, this is out of topic,

I understand the theory of the relationship between camber and tyre temoperature, so I would like to ask how do your folks set up camber..

1. How much camber do you use in each track?

2. How much difference in tyre temperature between the inner and outer? 10 C or 5C, or other values? when to use 5C , when to use 10C?

3. i race in blackwood using FZR I set to camber to 0.0 (center camber) and note that the difference in tyre temperature between outer and inner are 5 to 10 C, should I set to poistive camber to lower the temperature, I also wonder in real life, a positive or a center camber will be set up? My laptime is around top 1:11, and use a very neutral setup (steering angle set to 13 and just little bit oversteering)

4 If I set camber to 0, how come the tyre load (press f9 and the grey area) is uneven, is this normal ? because I orginally think if the camber is 0, the tyre load should be the same between exterior and interior. Do I have a misconception here? According to here http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html "Since most independent suspensions are designed so that the camber varies as the wheel moves up and down relative to the chassis", does that mean softer suspension will result in more negative camber, and it explains to me why 0 camber will give uneven tyre load?

I have been searcing around google for those answers, most of the article just described the theory, not the actual data

Thanks

Last edited by benoityip, Wed, 5 Dec 2007 05:17.

i tried to compared the handling in rfactor using Porsche Cup 2005, V8 Super Car , Corvette.. (I think these are good mods)

In LFS, I use FXO GTR and FXO (Street Version)
Many of you think that LFS has great car physics. I personally find the cars way too responsive compared to the mod in rfactor. I feel like driving a Formula car in LFS touring car series. Very responsive, very easy to save from mistake. I am using RaceS set up as installed by default..

The feel in LFS is like having a car with
-- Not enough body roll
-- the rear end can survive with extreme oversteering without spinning
-- The aerodynamics have way too much effect in handling. That may gives me the feeling of forumla cars
-- the car does not have enough weight, I feel like driving a 800kg thing instead of 1200kg

What brings to my point is that rfactor modders should be able to make car close to the handling of LFS, but the mods I use in rfactor, the cars are much more sluggish than LFS.. Even in GTR2, the cars are even more sluggish. I sometimes do not like GTR2 because the cars are too sluggish. It convinced me that the cars should be more sluggish in LFS because people are making sluggish cars.

Even I have watched a lot of U tube video, it cannot convince me that the car is as responsive as LFS cars.


Then I tried the forumla cars. I have CTDP 2005 in rfactor, the forumla car in LFS just cannot feel alright, I do not know what it is...

Quote from Hallen :

I have spent quite a bit of time trying to get rFactor to work. It doesn't matter if it is a fictitious car or a "real" modded in car, they all feel vaguely the same. Rotate about the middle, the same unpredictable tire behaviour, the same unpredictable braking, and Real-feel, although an improvement over stock, is still lacking compared to LFS. If you make a car setup well enough that it will actually turn-in on any corner in rFactor, it is so unrealisticly tail happy other places that it is just funny. It is just your opinion, as this is just my opinion, but calling LFS cars "arcade drift game" is just showing that you either haven't spent the time to learn how to properly setup a car, or you just have no clue.

LFS allows for an extremely wide range of settings changes (probably too wide), and that throws a lot of people off. You just don't crank things up all the way like you do in rFactor to get the results you want. It takes small tweaks and a real understanding of car setups to make a car work well.

I have spent many hours on a real track in a real car driving at the limit... and sometimes slightly past the limit. The comparison is extremely difficult to make between real world and the sim world. But, like Tristian, I can say with a lot of confidence that LFS comes much, much closer than rFactor.

Damn, I swore I would not ever post in this thread again... and there I go.

I have to emphasize I like both LFS and rfactor..

I know how to set up cars, I do that since GP2 many years ago, and I love LFS differential and traction settings, so detailed..

Aplogology to call LFS arcade drifting game...

How about GTR2? have u guys try that? I love it as well

I owe LFS and rfactor and GTR2, and I am play a lot of rfactor everyday.

I like the tyres and differential modelling in LFS, it is better than rfactor I think, but I also like the ability to set Engine RPM and weight distribution in rfactor

I have downloaded many mods, some mods are crap, but some mod has very good physics, even better than LFS default cars.

If you guys own GTR2 as well, the GTR2 cars have excellent handling..

I like LFS as well, but the cars are too frictious, feel like an arcade drift game

The same goes for rfactor, the demo cars are too frictious, feel like an arcade drift game, especially in suspension areas

but with mods in rfactor, that changes the whole story.. If LFS allow modders to mod real life cars, I am sure people will find LFS even more stunning as well.. It is just the parameters feeding into engine are not correct