Quote from filur :

And in the corners where the outside line is "not-so-fast", slowing down enough to allow side-by-side traffic can render the inner line faster, so you're basically just letting a car pass (which, in my view, had not even started overtaking in the first place). Your philosophy seems to allow blatant cutting of someone's line, and suggesting the driver being cut off should just leave room because that's somehow safe and fun racing.

Dont be too slow so noone will cahtch you
Seriously: if you cinsider that on the outside you can go to edge of track on exit, but inside guy cant (bacause he has to leave space for you) and has to astrat corner from inside, you'll see that there are wery few corners like you described. And if it happens, it happen - or would you like to crash to prve your point? Cause I'd be on the inside if you like it or not ... And since when do you have to slow down more for outside line? Ususally your speed on outside is higher (go try on oval, if nothing else), but distance is longer ...
And what cutting of yre you dreaming about? There's no someone's line (you did not buy the racetrack, did you) so when there's more tha 1 driver going for same piece of track, they both (or all) better know how to share it,m otherwise they'll crash - which is bad for all of them.

Quote from filur :

Easy to see your point, but i really disagree.

Many corners don't allow side-by-side traffic, anyone can "outbrake" into a tight corner on the inside, putting themselves basically onto the inner curb with 90% of the turning still left to do, the driver on the outside would basically need to stop and just let the "outbraking genius" get thru.

All corners allow side by side, it's just that in some outside line is quite fast and in some not so fast. And in case you mention: why stop? You leave him 1 car width from inside curb and that's it (until apex). If he hits you, it's his fault. If he takes inside line then he must stick to it, not slide out because he misjudged braking. And anyway: he brake too late, you let him slide out and resume your place in front ...

And "blocking" on the straighjt: in my opinion only 1 move should be alloowed, so if you move off line to cover an overtaking move you shold not be allowed to return to racing line. Once you start moving (for example) left, you should not be allowed bo move back right. Then drvers would think twice before moving all the way inside to block overtaking, cause id would mean that they need to strart the turn from inside edge of the track, and we all know what that means.

Last edited by lucky, Fri, 5 May 2006 12:13.

Quote from MAGGOT :

Quite frankly, I don't think anyone is 'entitled' to a line. If a car is coming up on your inside, and actually is even slightly at your side you should go wide to give them room to prevent a crash. If the one infront is 3/4 car lenght further ahead, and expects the line then they will most likely turn into the trailing car, causing an accident. The way I see it, just don't hit another car and all is well.

Also, Don't make repeated blocking attempts on the straights. I believe in one or more american based series (I believe specifically the Formula Atlantics?) There is a rule that you can cross the track once in a block-like attempt, but after than, you can not cross back to block if the other driver crosses back. The first blocking move is legal, additional ones are not.

This is how I believe that is how it should be handled anyways.

MAGGOT

I agree 100%. It's really simple: the one that turns into another vehice is to be blamed for the accident, whether he's in front or back a bit, outside or inside. Always give room, and if yoiu're not 100% there's enaough room to take the racing line drive as ther's someone alongside ...
It's about fun and safe racing, not blaming each other for avoidable accident.

Quote from Becky Rose :

I checked up recently because I know the RAC sold it off a while ago now (the year after I last raced TKM and moved to Pro's where I didn't need that license), it's now just called the MSA and governs all National and Club racing in Britain. It is not under the FIA which is a corporate money making machine based in France which happens to be partially owned by a Brit, but the majority shareholder is Fiat.


So you've never raced then? Welcome to LFS.

MSA is member of FIA and therefore it's rules must be in accordance with FIA rules.

And I have raced (as stated before) IRL and still do.

myyboss: yes, if I'm not 100% sure that there's NO overlap, I'll leave space (and squeeze him gently, just for fun).

Quote from Jakg :

so basically your saying that in that incident, the car ahead should of thought "Oh, well the person behind me wants to get past, so i better leave him lots of room and nt defend my position", what do you want him to? Pull over and stop? you would of thought the driver of the cam car would of had more sense!

NMo, more like: he's behnid me, attacking, I need to watch him carewfully. And if he lunges besides me, then I leave room. I canb still get him at the exit, cause he needs to take tighter line.
I race like that IRL and in LFS.

Quote from Becky Rose :

Interesting, but I regret to inform you of two very important errors in your post.

The series shown in the video is held under RACMSA regulations (or whatever the RACMSA became when the RAC sold it).

The FIA, specifically Max Mosley, did actually want to introduce a rule whereby if there was any overlap the car behind had right of way. The rule was set to come into force until it was pointed out that the guy infront only has 1 pair of eyes and they are in the middle of the car. "Significant overlap" remained the rule, and it's the rule because it works . Even with such favoratism to the car infront the last few seasons of F1 have been brilliant fun to watch.

1. st part: dod not know that, but I think RACMSA is under FIA.
2. F1 is booring. And as fopr 1 pair of eyes: if you're not 100% sure there's no overlap then act as there is overlap. Easy. Who do you blame in an incident? The guy who did not leave enough room.

Quote from Vain :

1. I'm glad I won't ever meet you on the track.
2. If you ever finish a race successfully, you are truely honoring your name.

Vain

To you and colcob: did race (still do), finished races, never been warnbed or penalised. And I'd do the move anytime.
As for colcob: the point of racing is being entertaining to spectators/Wiewers. No public interest, no sponsors, no racing ...

The blue one was 100% at fault. Let's face it: if you want interesting racing, there's only one rule: leave room for the other car. As iI have written many times: FIA rules are wrong and stupid (as are people leading FIA). There sjould be no bullshit about who's in fromnt at the corner entray, that's just justifiying bad drivers. It's easy: if 2 cars overlap (or even if the driver is not suzre that they do not overlap), or basicalkly if there's any doubt that there maybe could be somebody overlapping with your car, you should leave room - on the inside and on the outside (at the corner exit). Side by side raciunmg is only fun that way.

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

I get that a lot. Like today I could see some guy in my right mirrow every now and then, and could hear his engine. But when I go to turn I can't swing around to see where he is or I'd run off, then he runs into my rear quarts, sending me spinning >.< So damn annoying, some people get way to close in corners.

Then just leave room on the inside ...

Quote from Slartibartfast :

I'm not a gifted passer, but when I make a move, if I'm not side by side at braking marker I watch the other car carefully and back out when neccesary.

That means that you braked too early.
Now for real: if you go for overtake, you brake at the latest possible moment (so to outbrake other guy). That means that yo annot slow down even more to back out ...
Solution is simple: alway leave room on the inside if you even suspect taht someone might be there (sam thing goes on corner exit on the outside) ... Side by side racing is fun ...

Line: 3
Not enough time to become prioperly quick ...
Consistency: 7
Usually I get all my times in a longer raci within a second of each other and 1-2 secs of my PB.
Racecraft: 9
I can pass and you can not pass me, if I want it like that ... But I enjoy side by side racing ...

I think that full (real life) international racing license, medical check and a proper personal insurance should be required for people wnting to drive the race cars (i.e. the ones on slicks).

This is an auto racing simulation after all and someone should program LFS to not allow the user to race without a license, medical check and perosnal insurance. *flame suit on*

illepall

Last edited by lucky, Mon, 3 Oct 2005 22:03.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Of course I'm going to "close the door" right before the braking zone if I know you're one of those suicide squeeze-in-corner drivers. Just because we add more responsibility to the one being passed doesn't mean he hasn't got the right to fight for his position. But I agree on the straight thing, weaving left and right is a big no-no there.

I alway look at these things fro RL perspective, and in RL the racing depends on it's popularity. Less interesting,m less popular, less money, less racing ...
And if you want interesting races (for fans and drivers), they must have a lot of overtaking, side by side racing.
I don't know where you found "suicide squeeze-in-corner drivers", I never wrote about it. I just said that the main principle should be: if there is someone overlapping with you (or even if you think he could be overlaping with you, so when in doubt just live some room) you live him room - and that is on straight, on corner entry, on apex or at exit ... That's all it takes ...
And added bonus: if the guy overtaking is one of those "suicide squeeze-in-corner drivers" he'll just shoot by you and go off track (yes, I like them, I enjoy watchig that ) - and you will drive on, not end up with a crashed car off the track.
It's that easy ...

Quote from -wes- :

No one has the 'right' to the racing line or track.
No one can force another off the track or cause them to spin.

adding any more rules to this and you end up with follow the leader. and "oh would you let me past please? OH go on, ooo your mean! please?!!!"


When you go off line to pass someone, you automaticly have less control than the other car. Expecting them to be able to abort the pass is folly.

If your on the inside of me I will give your 1 car's width at the apex, but I might pinch you down at the exit. I might give you as much room as possible at the exit, but never expect it.

When you on the outside I will give you 1 car's width at the exit, you can pinch me down. And I'll do my best not to hit you, but don't assume we won't make contact.

Driver's who expect to have the racing line(or anything while racing) will end up out of the race hammering the votekick button.

I see this as being fair without being overly restrictive.

That's exactly how I would put it (when racing with friends on our private server we always keep to these rules) - and it provides for great racing. I can remember gonig several laps side to side, overtakong and being overtaken. That's racing, not overly controlled follow the leader stuff.
And I'm absolutelly agains any blocking moves on the straight. Not a single line change in/right before braking zone ...

Quote from Hoellsen :

Personally I consider the CRC-rule wrong, except the overlap is only like 1/10 of a car. Anytime the cars overlap more than fender to fender, I feel noone has the right to the corner and both sides should leave enough room for each other to drive through the corner 2wide.

Exactly (and the FIA rule, which is similar, is also wrong). This is the only way to ensure interesting racing without incidents. If there's only a possibility that there's someone besides you (even only by few milimetres) you should leave him exatcly 1 car width room (or more, of course). If I'm not sure if the guy behind me is still behind or strating to go inside, I leave room. And I expect the same. If you don't leave room, there's gonna be a crash.
I used to do that IRL racing too, and usually I was the one coming out in front ...

I've raced some and have driven a lot of rally cars (from 70 HP group N to WRC) and race cars (up to supertouring & GT).
You can flatshift without damaging the engine in any (race or road car) trhat has rev-limiter. The damege to clutch/gearbox/engine mounts/joints... with flatshifting if you awoid doing 1-2 (and sometimwes 2-3, depending on power, gear ratios etc ...) is negligent. Not matching revs on downshifting will cause much more damage because shock loading is much greater than with flatshifting ...
Even if you're quite brutal, gearbox and other stuffv will usually take normal race without apparent damage (but will fail eventually if you do not rebuild it after that) ...

Hmmm ... Me like these endurence races. Me try to get a GRT (Ghostaholic Racing Team) team together ...

Funny thing how i resolvedf my lag prob. I use a centrino notebook and when I disabled built-in WLAN and used PCMVCIA WLAN card lag dissapeared ... Weir, since everythnig was OK with the built-in WLAN for some time, then lag appeared ...

Same ISP/connection since S1.

Ih have the sam problem since installing new patch. Lag usually gets worse (alnd leads to disconnection) if I go off the trac or even hit the barrires ...
Haven hat such problem sice very early pre S1 days ...