I've managed to put in a test session now. Found a setup on LFS Setup Field for FZR and after almost 20 laps I've managed a 2:45. I also tried the XRR for a couple of laps, but dont have a setup for that one, so for now I'm actually more stable with the FZR... Unfortenately my job is trying to kill me at the moment, which is a one off. Normally I can glide through my working hours, but lately Oracle (the database) has been throwing me curve balls way often than normal... This has meant much less energy to simrace :-( .

Still, got one practice session under my belt, and my first run ever with the FZR is now complete.

Quote from ivantod :

The longest configuration of Aston.8.8 km lenght.XRR or FZR???They both have same weight,same horse power,power-weight is same also,but engines not.XRR is 2.0 turbo charged inline 4,FZR 3.6 flat 6,and FZR is faster than XRR,but my choice will be XRR.It has sequential gearbox with ignition cut,it has turbo charger,i love the sound of turbo.And i found it that is,at least for me,easier to control XRR.All that power in FZR flips me around

FWD in previous combo spoiled me,must practice RWD in corners,easy on throttle,and that's gonna be fine.

So,I will choose XRR.

Crap... I have not driven the FZR yet, but liked the sound when I watched the world record, so I decided then that - FZR it is . Now you're saying it's a beast. I have driven the XRR once, on a track, in another league, a couple of weeks ago, and had no major trouble with that one.

I will give the FZR a go and see how I can handle it . I like a challenge, if it's not too big .

This was my first race ever in this league, and so far I like everything about it . I ended up in Pool 4 and got pole position, took the start, managed to keep the lead all through the race and everyone I lapped did a great job respecting the blue flag.

I managed to get some space between myself and the second from the start, but pretty soon Sven Schmid started to gain on me. He was lapping faster than me and gained every lap. He would catch me soon enough, and he did. I was not ready to give him much trouble if he tried to pass me, since points in this league are so close, position wise, I would never risk a run off for position. He never had the chance to try though and run into some trouble. I haven't seen the replay yet, so I don't know what kind of trouble.

I decided to join this league Wednesday late evening, so had only Thursday evening to practice the UFR on this track. I had no setup for UFR on this track, only drove UFR on WE1 before. Managed to extract the WR-setup and modify it to be nicer to the tyres, put in half an hour practice and then qualified for Pool 4, in pole position.

After the qualifying I managed to put in some more practice and entered the 1:24's, even managed a couple of high 1:23's, but in the race I stayed in the 1:24's in this little monster .

I practiced some starts from pole and some pit stops, so I was fairly confident in those parts.
My R3's in front held up the whole race and actually got a bit too cold at the end...

For the next race I'm hoping to reach Pool 2 or even Pool 1. I mean two weeks practice instead of half an hour . Still there are more stuff to fiddle with in the setup of these cars... I have only raced XRR once, but never FZR. I know the track pretty well. Not exactly that combo, but half the track I've raced and the other half I raced in reverse. I think I will go FZR because of the engine sound .

Quote from t1ger :

Hi leifchriand, and welcome to the league. I trust you will enjoy yourself with us.

I have not put the car on its roof in your T5, and I don't think I am scared of doing, however now you have sewn a seed of thought, I expect to do just that on lap 1! I have put the XFR on its roof in T1 and the last chicane coming back onto the start finish straight.

Things can only get worse from here.....

Tim

Well, now I have unbolted my seat and drilled some new holes on the right side of the car and bolted the seat there, and now I can go lap after lap without flipping . I also have 20% less ARB's, front and rear. I dont flip in T5 anymore, though... Lessening (dont know if that's a word even, but since I'm swedish I guess I can get away with it ) the ARB's I guess is helping because the load transfer will take longer and the springs will take the force instead of flipping the car. Not sure my logic here is sane though .

I also improved my lap times, and are now doing 1:24.0 in race condition - Excellent ! R2 rear, R3 in front. They seem to keep the temperature, barely. Hopefully they will cool down during the end of the race. I have increased the tyre pressure, and lowered the camber at the rear. Compared to the WR-setup, that is.

I'm new in this league, and started driving LFS in January this year, and have now a pretty good feel of the cars, but...

Am I the only one having trouble not flipping the car in T..., lets see; first we have T1 (slow right hander), T2 and T3 (the chicane), T4 (double left hander), and T5 (fast full throttle right hander). Yes that's the one, the T5. Am I the only one getting the car flipped in this corner without touching the curbs? It feels as if there is a small bump that starts it. It happens every second or third lap...

My qual time yesterday was a 1:24.6 after just doing halv an hour practice with the UFR on this track. I have driven this track once before, but with the MRT (1.6 s from WR), and I have driven the UFR before but on WE1 (1.2 a from WR).

I'm starting to wonder how the UFR will do in the (famous?) swedish elk test . The one that flipped the Mercedes A-klasse a couple of years ago.

Quote from Gekkibi :

...And what about overtaking? AI will keep your racing line, no matter what?

AI won't crash now, but maybe after that "feature" it will. Oh, wait...

Any AI behaviour would work just as it work now... Why change that? Only reason to change it would be to improve it, but since the AI is so much slower than the real drivers I dont see why you would spend time improving it?

Quote from AndroidXP :

If the only intention of this is to have a AI that you can race, how about using a setup that has x% intake restriction or weight handicap?

Your solution would only be a "quick" and dirty one, with the catch that it wouldn't actually be all that quick to implement. I'd rather have Scawen make the AI more raceable in terms of behaviour. Maybe letting the AI learn from or gradually copy the human player's lines while keeping its own line and calculations would be something to think of, but strict hardcoding of player lines causes more problems than it solves.

Personally I have a problem with changing anything so I will go slower . Thats not why I race.

From the way the AI behaves and drive right now it seems Scawen really don't want to spend too much time coding it. AI seem to have a very low priority in LFS, and I'm fine with that. If he use this idea for the racing line, he could spend much more time figuring out how to make the AI leave the line for overtaking and defending.

Dirty, I dont know? The AI could come with pre recorded race lines from several drivers, (just go online and record from an online league race), and the AI could choose between these racers race lines before a race and then stick to a drivers line during the race, so you could count on an AI driver to take the same corner almost the same way every lap, like a real driver would. It would not look dirty, and their racing lines would be extremly realistic.

The AI dont have to use the drivers or the pre recorded racing lines until the user actually is faster than the AI. They could drive like they do now...

I think I have a pretty simple solution to make the AI go as fast as yourself. I'm pretty new to LFS, but I have no trouble out pacing the AI, which for me is either remove them completely from LFS or make them as fast as me.

Here's my pretty simple solution suggestion . Make the AI cars drive my line with my speeds using my setup.

LFS could clock my laps with as many split times as there are corners in a lap. Each split should be just before a corner, just before braking or turning in. If the AI then could pick a combination of my racing lines that gives the best lap time, the AI would always beat me. Sure there has to be done some interpolation between split time racing lines, but I think it's solvable.

Then it would be nice if I could dial down the AI, to say 99%, so if I can put in laps in a race in the 1:40's constantly, and have a best race lap at 1:39.8, then I probably have split times with a possible 1:39.2, which the AI could drive. But at 99% the fastest AI will make a best lap around 1:40.2, which makes it possible for me to win the race... Or I have it at 100% and race mid field...

An easy way to dial it down to 99% is to pick a combination of split times that's 1% slower.

What have I missed?

Edit: Crap, when I wrote the subject I changed it from "faster than yourself" to "as fast as yourself", and now see how silly it looks . Apparently I can not edit the subject .

Last edited by leifchriand, Tue 8 Apr 2008, 15:27. Reason : Faulty subject.

Quote from Rooble :

Great idea, but in reality it probably won't be anything more then an idea.

To begin with, Scawen would need to code some form of server/client to enable all this to begin with, and this really strays from the current objective of creating 'the best simulator possible' so that alone stops it dead in its tracks.

Another thing you need to consider is the bandwidth required for all this, who is going/willing to host a 'VS' server that allows 120+ users connect to it for free? Ok, so you mention potential advertisement and sponsors and stuff, but this won't happen right away.

Finally, the technology is already available, and on both fronts. LFS-TV for people who have LFS (although this could do with some more development), and just regular broadcasting/streaming technology which has been around for a few years now.

I don't think the bandwidth is a problem. Even if a server can only support 30 spectators, we still can support millions of viewers. The Spectator-Tree have no limit in size, since the top server still only serves 30 other VS-servers, no matter how many VS-servers are connected in total.

As we speak it is already free of charge to connect to a server online and race. I don't see why those having setup a race-server can not also set up a VS-server. Especially since they are the once who later can charge companies for commercials. As soon as they can show any kind of viewer ratings, of course.

The client server code is already there in LFS. LFS can send spectator information to all connected, and LFS can receive spectator information from another LFS.

In principal you take the LFS code and remove the driving code, add code for being a server and a client at the same time, and add code for handling if the server the VS is currently connected to, goes down.

As I often say to my project leaders - I have thought of everything . They immediately realize that this, of course, is impossible .

Personally, I do not like the idea of streaming the mpr file, since I believe this will not be considered as viewing the race live, and you need to buy LFS even if you never will race in it, and LFS is to complicated for people who do not have our computer experience. A broadcast solution a la TV I do not like either since you can not have the freedom of choosing viewing angles like you have in LFS.

The VS-version of LFS needs to be so simple that my parents can use it, that is I should be able to send them a link via mail, and they can click this link and VS-LFS starts and connects to the correct race.

Now I'm digressing but say default settings is at TV-follow the leader. Big buttons which says Next Driver, Previous Driver, and maybe Cockpit Camera and TV Camera buttons. Maybe Next Camera and Previous Camera. Save race on exit should be default. Starting VS-LFS with no link, you can chose to watch recorded races or get a list of servers to watch live...

Quote from Juls :

LFS-tv is a very good idea. I hope you can continue this project. It would be nice if demo version of LFS can read replay files of full version. There is no reason it could not.

Sim racing is ready to make it's coming out. We can see things are moving everywhere in the world. Simbin launched last month the race-room concept ( http://www.race-room.com ), LFS will be on TV, sims were on TV in Sweden...several projects in south America too.

LFS has a unique opportunity to take that train. Because it has no licensing problem concerning broadcasting. And with the replay files, broadcasting could be very efficient, using not much bandwith for a perfect result. Lot better than video broadcasting.

I know my parents, and some of my friends and colleagues would like to see me race in the league I'm currently participating in, and none of them race themself.

Some people like to see cars crash, some people like to see team compete against each others, some people like to see drivers compete on equal terms, some people just like the pretty colors. There are all kinds of people so it's pretty impossible to predict how big of a TV-sport simracing can be...

If this would make the mpr/spr too big, then maybe there could be an option in LFS - Create Key Frames, that took an mpr/spr file and made key frames in it, say every time the driver/leader exits the last corner. A new file is created with the ending .wkf.mpr or .wkf.spr.

Quote from icyocean :

i wonder if it is possible to have a 'complete' server relay tool for pure spectators. i mean something which connects to a certain server, possibly as a normal client, and at the same time functions as a connectable server for LFS clients as well. it will connect and get all the data a normal (spectating) LFS client gets from the server and then as an indepentent server it will dispatch the data to its own clients. obviously spectators on this relay server will not be able to join the race but they can watch it using LFS with all the physics and skins etc.. and maybe a relay server can connect to another relay server so a chain can be established to provide a lot of bandwidth for pure spectators.

i do not know what kind of server-client protocol LFS uses. if all clients get the same (complete) race data all the time then (i guess) maybe this would actually work

This I like . Unfortunately I started a new thread with this before finding this thread . I suggest a mini-version of LFS with which you can only watch races, but in the same way as you can watch races from within LFS. Lets call it LFS Virtual Spectator (VS), for now.

VS in itself is a server and a client, like Torrent clients. I think it should be free of charge, at first...

Since a VS is only relaying data to clients connected to it, it could perhaps be able to handle 100+ clients. So if you have one VS connected to the actual race-server, then 100 can connect to that VS, and to those 100 VS, another 10 000 can connect (100 times 100). To those 10 000 VS, another 1 000 000 can connect...

Now we have a market for commercials...

Quote from AndroidXP :

Yes, this has been discussed many times in the past. A better replay control system would definitely be beneficial, for example for server admins/race marshals who have to review races to give out penalties, especially if it was an endurance race.

As you've correctly established, rewinding per se is not possible. Instead a keyframing system to jump to certain points of the replay is the way to go.

However, Scawen's prioritization of tasks has always been a little mysterious; while this suggestion, as many others, might be useful, thought-through and at least from my point of view as programmer not too hard to implement conceptually, it already has been around for years and I expect it to stay around for quite a while before it or similarly useful suggestions (better setup organization, setup notes, ...) get implemented - if they ever get implemented, that is.

When you're old like me you've noticed that done correctly, nagging actually works .

If you come up with a product that sucks, then you get almost no suggestions to improve it, but if you come up with something as brilljant as LFS, then you get loads and loads of suggestions, so hopefully the developers take the suggestions as praise .

Personally I just love the physics engine in LFS, and I know love is a very strong word .

Quote from JO53PHS :

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=472261#post472261

SEARCH SEARCH SEARCH, OH THE MAGICAL SEARCH.

But that's an add-on application. I would like to have this feature in LFS, and since you can pause in LFS it should not be that hard to code the feature of setting a "bookmark". This could perhaps also be done during the racing, everytime the driver exits the last corner, but if this affects the fps too much, then there could be a feature that "bookmarks" an already existing mpr/spr file.

Quote from Dark Elite :

Seeing as Demo users cannot watch replays on tracks or of cars that they haven't paid to unlock, I'm not sure about the likelihood of this.

Sam

I'm hoping that was the easiest way to lock LFS. With that I mean when they wrote the code to lock LFS they realized that too make the replay function work with unlocked tracks and cars they had to write a lot more code to lock LFS, so they didn't .

Quote from bbman :

There was already a project called LfS-TV, where the gameserver (or a relay-server? I don't remember) streamed the .mpr of the race to viewers... You just had to connect to the server via LfS-TV, open LfS and start the created replay... Sadly it never really took off, so the project slowly died...

Fecking cruising or licence scripts are the focus now it seems...

The problem with that was perhaps that you needed a license for LFS to be able to see a race. I don't think my relatives, friends and colleagues should need to buy LFS to see me make a fool out of myself in races .

If we can get a lot of spectators to view races, then the organizers could be able to sell commercial space in the races; on the cars, helmets, drivers and tracks.

My parents and some of my friends and some of my colleagues has actually showed some interests of seeing me race...

Quote from RAM0011 :

Hello

Why in the replays is isn't the > , < , >> , << , II play bouton

So its very easyer

Thank's

Unfortunately I'm new to LFS, but not that new to racing simulators. With that I think the replay only saves the input data (wheel, brake, throttle, gearing and such) for the driver that saved the replay, and "position" for the rest of the drivers. When a replay is played back the simulation is run again, but now get the input data from the file instead of the driver. This makes it very hard to rewind. You would have to do the simulation backwards.

A simpler solution would be to save the state of the simulation after each lap so you could at least rewind one or more laps. This would make the work for race judges much easier. Saving a simulation's state takes more time than just saving the input data and the other cars "position", so it's not that simple to do in real time... Geoff Crammond did this however with his Grand Prix 2 in the mid 90's, so it's doable. Come to think of it, every time you hit pause in LFS, the state of the simulation is known, so maybe it would not be that hard to save in real time?

Even better perhaps, when you hit pause you could have choice to save the state, so you could rewind to that position. Now that would be a really nice feature.

That's what I think anyway .

I think it's time to take simulated racing to be a spectator sport, in 3D, and big time . In Sweden we already have had a televised series in 10 episodes, but I'm thinking online.

The solution for LFS is simple, I hope... I have a master in computer science, so the chance I'm right is good .

I'm sorry if anyone already have suggested this. I tried to search the net and this forum for such a suggestion, but could only find the 2D solution.

Make an LFS server/client application that works like LFS, but it can only be a spectator, but in 3D of course, just as LFS. Lets call it LFS Virtual Spectator (VS), for now. Make it function something like this:

1. VS connects to the race server.

2. A VS allows 30+ (in reality 120 should be no problem) VS to be connected to itself.

3. The race server itself only needs a couple of VS connected to it. Maybe when you set up a league race you also setup two VS.

4. Every VS is in itself a VS server, like Torrent-clients.

5. The VS that are connected to the race server are registered in a way, so the rest of the VS can connect to them without disturbing the race server.

6. A VS of course knows the VS it's connected to, call it the mother VS, but also knows which VS is the grandmother's VS, and so on, so if the mother goes away, it immediately connects to the grandmother, or higher.

7. VS is of course free of charge.

8. VS is so simple to use that our parents can use them. Those born in the 40's

Now say we start a race server, and two other servers with VS on them. Now 60 VS can connect to those two. To these 60 VS another 1800 can connect, to those 1800 another 54000 can connect.

If we can have 120 spectators on each server, we get 28800 connected to the VS that are connected to the two top level VS, and then 3 456 000 on the next level...

I'm only human so my reasoning above probably has some flaws, but hopefully they can be corrected without loosing the LFS Virtual Spectator. Actually I already see some flaws, but they don't seem too serious .