Ahem...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L ... .2C_street-legal_vehicles

These were all complaints by members that SMS fixed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKQ-TwTkLnI

Quote from Intrepid :

ahh just spotted the karts. Not sure why car sim developers are so fixated on them because unless you basically design a whole new physics engines you're never going to get it anywhere near close to the complexities of developing a decent feeling kart.

IIRC, SMS intends to have the physics engine being able to deal with both cars and karts. This essentially means that the engine needs to be able to simulate proper chassis flex to simulate the kart, which again comes as a plus for simulating cars that aren't as rigid as Formula 1 cars. From what I've read on their forums, chassis flex, that isn't based on springs, is planned.

They're decent enough with cars that are out of alpha stage.

At the end, unless you're an actual experienced race drivers, the physics are just what you want them to be. If you believe LFS is better out of principle, nothing will convince you otherwise, no matter how correct whatever other sim is simulating everything. Hell, there's at least one guy pretending that the sim feels like pivot physics, so there.

Quote from BlueFlame :

It's gonna be an investment fail. I was interested up until the point I heard it was based on Shift 2 game-engine.

Because it's an immutable piece of code, amirite?! They're continuing to work on the physics. Chassis flex is coming, too, and LFS doesn't have that.

Not to mention that the devs said that the shitty feel in the SHIFT games is due to EA wanting it gamepad friendly and as such come with compromised values all over the place.

And finally, who's to say whose physics are the most realistic? Too much people in here pretend to be real life race drivers.

Quote from Skytrill :

Some peoples are claiming it's the best physic out there.. even better than GTR2 (sigh).

Jesus Christ, SMS is practically half of SimBin, so it's definitely potential in there. And for one, there isn't some big publisher breathing down their neck. From all accounts over at NoGrip, the engine is definitely capable. SMS already admitted that they've applied unrealistic values to various components to make SHIFT2 cars better controllable with console controllers.

Quote from Skytrill :

Im glad I didn't pay more than 10euro if the game is indeed suppose to be free on release.. unless there are privileges like owning lucrative content. It seem kind of blurry at the moment.

Plan was always base game for free (very limited car and track selection), with content packs for actual money. I guess the iRacing model, just less faggy.

Quote from tsichles :

GTR is a new world I donnot know exactly.

If you mean thr GTR R35, it's a pretty nifty design. Transaxle AWD.

It's a RWD design, with a secondary axle, that can transfer up to 50% to the front differential, via an electronically controlled clutch in the rear transmission. But it only does so, if the car's stability control thinks it needs to. Unless there's any sort of tire slip or excessive jawing, it operates mostly as pure RWD.

After reading what the SMS developers posted over on gamesindustry.biz, I'm reinforced that most people's hate here is based on it being not LFS and being an EA game, rather actual judgement.

Granted, it doesn't help that every car's default settings are crap (tire pressures too high, suspension way too soft), but the physics aren't as bad and "invented" as you guys are trying to make them out to be.

Quote :

Doug Arnao: The physics model is a full 3D scope engine capable of creating the car dynamics based on parameters taken from the specs of the real-life car - those provided by manufacturers directly and those provided from extensive research. Chassis, suspension, aerodynamics and tyres all generate their forces in 3D in real time. We run these models and recalculate the car state at 400 times per second which makes for a very convincing experience as nothing is left to guesswork.

The chassis model in itself is pretty extensive (approximately 150 parameters). Basics include weight and CG heights and positions and we model the weight and inertia of the sprung and un-sprung masses separately along with spin inertias of the un-sprung items (wheels, brake discs etc). There are 3D suspension geometry parameters for all inner/outer points of a double wishbone along with the tie-rod and damper placements.

The dampers themselves have slow and fast parameters (n/mm/sec) with adjustable switchover points and bump stops with their own stiffness settings. Differentials are the standard 'Salisbury' type with accel/deccel lock settings and visco electronic diffs are also modelled along with inputs for spring rate. Brake torque and brake heating are monitored on a per wheel basis in order to get the heating right for brake pad fade and disc glows.

The tyre model is based on the 'brush model' slip curve generation. Core parameters here include: cornering/braking/self-aligning stiffness, load and camber sensitivities, heating parameters, rolling resistance and base grip of the rubber in longitudinal/lateral directions. The tyre model therefore is class leading (if not the best) in the sim industry.

Finally, the engine model uses a standard rpm/torque curve lookup in 250rpm increments. Some parameters are: rotating inertia, accel friction drag, deccel drag, heating. Turbos are modelled as separate components with their own separate physics and can be bolted on to directly effect it as in the real world.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/a ... he-bonnect-shift-2-part-1

Here's a mod that reduces the time tires react to controller input. For whatever reason, there's a delay set up in the physics engine. It also comes with an older dinput8.dll, that doesn't do input lag. Both result in way better handling and less wobble. The wheel in the cockpit also pretty much turns with my actual one in realtime now (there's a teensy weeny delay due to triple buffering).

http://www.virtualr.net/need-f ... andling-minimod-released/

I only drive stock cars in Shift2.

For that matter, it might not be that physically accurate, but the atmosphere and an actual feel for speed makes up for it.

Also, imma leavin' this here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9LdqRdvpMg

I like how everyone's talking down the game, shitting their pants in fear that someone like EA delivers something with actually decent physics, great graphics and licensed tracks and cars. If all these conditions are met, plus there being a decent multiplayer mode, LFS is effectively obsolete and dead.

Also, not even TDU2 has central pivot physics, what makes anyone think someone like SMS would do that?

Sadly, the Scott bike's grounded, except if I go to a bike park once in a leap year. The other one's strong enough to do most of my antics, too (enduro, some downhill, no 10m drops or stuff like that, I'm too old for that shit).

If the Scott had a granny gear, it wouldn't have been necessary to get the other one. The frame prohibits putting a regular derailleur on it. I'm however debating on whether I should put a Hammerschmidt on it or not, since I like it's suspension characteristics better.



--edit: Also, hydraulic brakes are fine. As long you don't want to spend less than 20 bucks on some.

Toot toot! What potholes?

Shift 2 is right now my hope for a decent sim with great graphics and licensed cars and tracks.

I don't however have any hopes for multiplayer. If at all, it'll be a bigger cluster**** than LFS multiplayer.

Yeah, but if you're playing on custom maps and have to deal with these idiots that don't know what a brake is or think they're clear immediately when the car they're overtaking is just out of the field of view, you'll be flying more often than not into these red barriers.

In combination with that, I figure it's about time to look into inter-car collision physics anyway, because it can't be that the guy who rear-ends you is able to keep control and stay on tracks virtually every time, while most often turning the rammee into a helicopter rotor.

Quote from Vain :

The red-barrier-bug

I wish this one would go away, especially because I like playing on custom maps.

That it takes already over two years is kinda iffy. But the feeling I have is that the whole physics project is being held up by trying to polish away really minor issues and esoteric corner cases. I think the developers should set a target date and try to get the best compromise out by then, release it and then continue working on the model. Unless there are some terrible showstoppers, like running over a small bump sending you to the moon, there's no reason why that couldn't be done. Every project has to enter a compromise on what it launches or not at a certain point in time.

If companies like EA are slowly treading back into simulation territory, and doing that by hiring people that already worked on fairly realistic sims, I'd start worrying about my turf.

SHIFT wasn't there yet, but seeing how people complained a lot about realism, the sequel might be putting down its foot closer to where LFS is. And at some point, THIS game is going to be screwed. Things like Forza and GT5 getting support for decent wheels doesn't exactly help, either.

Meanwhile, the developers are keeping mum and apparently trying to implement the kitchen sink, no matter how long it takes.

Good going.