Quote from stay :

Doesn't turning down the "Echo Volume Boost" slider in the audio options section get rid of the reverb for you ?
Thats one of the first things I do after installing LFS.

It's down to 1.0 all the time... it's the lowest value there.

Robbson.

Quote from Gunn :

Check your sound card settings to make sure reverb is not enabled. My LFS sound is working fine and the only reverb sound I get is when I am travelling close to a barrier and the sound is "reflected" back.

Yes, I've got your point but there is also a standard reverb all the time... My EAX control panel is very easy to access and I know that there's nothing wrong with it... (LFS is not the only game but the onlye one with this problem.)
I will check this out and will do some sample recordings so we can compare or it something like this.

Robbson.

OK OK OK OK OK

STOP THIS NOW!

I knew that a thread like this with a discussion to the payment policy is like running against a wall... But I've read a lot of interesting things, arguments and other *** stuff... thanks for all this time.

You have targeted a hidden goal with this discussion, aren't you? Who is paying you for this?
Because now I have a motivation for buying a S2 license... I want to drive against all these word fighters here... You can fight with words but how good you are on the road?
Say goodbye to your best track times, I will beat them! :smash3d:

BUT....... there's still the sound issue left, maybe I will open another thread for this later... Perhaps there is a way to get off this reverb effect from the engine sound... I hate it.
I can't drive with this engine sound... please create a switch to turn the engine reverb off... It sucks.... I hate it.... Did I already say that I hate it?

See you on track next month...

Thx,
Robbson.

Quote from Vykos69 :

At the 24/7 gasstation around the corner they always look for workers. 3hours and you have your 18,- Euros for your upgrade...

**LOL**
But when I get this job, I will never finish my diploma.

You know this discussion is not about money only... it's about some principles I don't understand... and it's related to my S1 license which is only for offline content suitable... The "upgrade discount" was discovered by someone other here and that's not a bad idea compared to the programming stuff needed for a limited S1 access to a S2 server.

Robbson.

Quote from Hankstar :

Robbson: "FULL ACK"? I've been lurking about in online forums since '01 and that's the first time I've seen anyone say (shout) that...may not be as common as you think

I also never used this before... but read it so often... Now it was time to use it... and no one knows it...

Quote from skiingman :

All of this over 12 pounds?
Robbson, I've earned more than that sitting here reading forums in the time you've taken to write these silly posts.

I hope you don't forget to think while you work. In Germany I it's late evening now and I spend my spare time to write something in this forum. So you can see, there's not so much money you can earn at this time except rents or something like that.

But discussion about money is senseless... and "want a job" is still another thing than "get a job", Mr. Workaholic.

Robbson.

Quote from BBO@BSR :

the release date of S2 alpha was:
sat, Jun. 25th, 2005 20:00

and your Join Date shows Apr 2004

So you could play S1 full for almost 14 month. That's a long time in games business if you ask me.

Because all your other "arguments" are troll-like I'm going to answer only to this issue. My joining time in the LFS community has nothing to do with my S1 license which I bought in spring or summer 2005. You have recognized that there are also demo players in this forum, do you?

And no, I didn't play the demo from 2004 to 2005 so much because there is still a real life where I have to do some upgrades, too.

Robbson.

Quote from Vykos69 :

OK, I just cutted out the other trolling, that you also started in german forum, and make it simple:

Yes, because in the German forum I nearly found some stubborn persons only, who don't like to discuss an issue but want to blame other users with lower accolade. Here I've found some serious people with interesting arguments and I see you also can do it...

Quote from Vykos69 :

Just for the record of speculation: With S3 you get an Online Racing Sim with prolly 30+ clients on a server, LFSTV, about 1600 car/track combinations from low powered UF1 to formula1, from bike to trucks. With tracks from rallye to rallyecross, from autocross to Formula1 tracks, ovals etc. An uptodate DX9 engine with best texture work you can get.

Cool, this sounds like the product description of "Need For Speed - Underground". There you have only 6 city tracks... and they splitted it to longer and shorter versions and also let you drive it the other direction so you have 36 "tracks" at all... But your idea with the cars&tracks combination is even more brilliant: 1600 cars/tracks combinations...
Do you work in the marketing sector? Your "trick the customer" methods sound like this.

Quote from Vykos69 :

And you want to tell me, that 54 Euros will be too much? How much did you pay for a single series racing sim called GTR, which didnt ran smoothly? New price 55 euros... or an even less equipped game like rfactor? Did those game work well? Ah, right, you gonna buy GTR2 for another 50 euros this year, for 3 new cars, a "brand new" gfx and physics engine and a season 2 years ago. Wow, LFS is expensive....

Their games are nearly perfect and getting better and better... but I know a lot of people in the LFS community so I don't really want to switch and I don't want to train again a new game... not again 4000 laps...
Ok, in LFS you have to be patient because you are the paying life long beta tester... The sofware companies'es dream at all.

Quote from Vykos69 :

To put it straight: 36,- Euros for the quality you get atm is probably the best price/quality ratio out on the sim-market.

I never said that LFS is a poor quality game... I played it a lot (offline) and be (somewhat) addicted to it. But I didn't start all the comparisons to other games like GTR.

And there are a lot of funny people here which dream in their own world.... "Never seen patches for GTR" and something like this. That's paranoid. There are many patches up to version 1.5 out yet... sometimes with more tracks and cars... 24h le mans races... that's also great content... But LFS fanboys like to ignore that other companies offer something great, too.

Robbson.

@Ball Bearing Turbo

FULL ACK= Full acknowledge! Online forums are new to you, isn't it?

Quote from Cue-Ball :

You DO get a reduced price! You only have to pay 12 pounds, not the full 24! With any other product you'd have to pay the FULL price, not just the difference.

I don't get any discount... because 12+12 pounds is the same like 24 pounds... and from the first 12 pounds I don't get so much like you got in your LFS history. Time goes by... things getting older... but LFS still costs the same.

Quote from Cue-Ball :

Just what content is it that you get with GTR and not LFS? The last time I checked GTR only had GTR cars. No road cars, no roadsters, etc.

You can get all these cars by user community packs in GTR. But I don't need all this silly stuff... Give me a car like everyone has and drive it to it's physical limits against others... that's racing in LFS.

Quote from Cue-Ball :

And when is the last time you saw a patch for any Simbin game? When is the last time you saw one of their devs come on the forum and directly answer a question from one of their customers?

That's easy to answer: Their games are complete and they don't have stages like in LFS. So you have a whole bunch of tracks in GTR and 50 cars, a lot of tools, great physics, damage system, tire wearing, etc... There is no need for additional patches when all is working fine...

Quote from Cue-Ball :

12 pounds is NOT a lot of money. Especially not for someone who obviously can afford a computer, a network connection, etc. You've gotta pay to play. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

Of course it's a lot when I only want to play with other users the old S1 content... because I don't have the time to train my driving skills for complete new tracks and cars... paying 12 pounds for switching to online play with more than 2 people IS indeed too much.

That's difficult to explain to someone who only live in the LFS-world and spend so much time with the game...

Quote from Cue-Ball :

again, you talk about small content. Compare S2 (priced at 24 pounds) to any other racing game on the market.
rFactor is more expensive and has FEWER tracks and cars. netKar PRO is more expensive and has only three cars and four tracks. So, where are these superior games you keep talking about?

When a new PC game is released, you pay something about 39-44 Euro in Germany... The S2 license (for a new customer) costs 36 Euro... so you see that's very similar. And don't forget, you get a full printed manual and other items in a box rather than a voucher key only... Of course, you can also order these things on the German LFS page but then you pay more then 55 Euro...
So: GTR2 would be a great game with similar price range... but far more advanced content than LFS will ever have.

Robbson.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

If the S2 server changed to a different track, he would just get booted, OR he would be forced to spectate because of his license status, which would be better because it would entice him to buy the extra content! S1 is coded to have those items, because it's all the same program. It's only access that is restriced via the license.

FULL ACK!!

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

But you're right - it MAY be a lot of work (it might not) and it probably isn't worth it at this point, but from a consumer perspective it's silly I think.

So they could offer me and other later players an upgrade discount. For this little time I have left for playing LFS in future, I don't want pay 18 Euro. A used but full usable GTR game/account is much cheaper now and there I can change my "world name"... And I also like the cool GTR's engine sound.

Robbson.

The example with photoshop application is also nonsense!
If a new release of a application in near future is known, new customers to the older version normally get a reduced upgrade price to the later version or the upgrade is for free! That's what I call customer support and most applications companies do offers like this today.

Of course, I would upgrade to S2 for a special offer... this would be the most fair and easiest solution to new users which never or nearly not used LFS in early days like the old community.

@tristancliffe
Please don't compare the price thing of LFS with full price games like GTR!
In GTR you have so much content... and in LFS you have to wait years for some new car physics, 2 more tracks and some damage model... that's it. So don't call it cheap... it's a lot of money for some small content... That's because the developer group is so small and it seems that they don't like contributions (like tracks) from the community. When you buy S2 (full retail games are not too much higher priced) you get only a small game... of course a nice one... but small content and old fashioned graphics, etc. So it should not be compared to other BIG commercial games on the market.

AGAIN: I (want) pay for driving with the community and not for the content!

Robbson.

@Cue-Ball

Because you have the content of S1 in S2 (I can activate my account in the S2 release), you can't compare it with any other game out there where a new game is a completely different installation/account.

And for what you have paid the S1 license in the past? I will tell you: For online driving and that is the thing what LFS is all about!!
I don't want to pay for offline content only... One track would be enough, if I could race with the non-demo community and logging my stats... but even that's not possible.

And think about this again:
You paid 18 Euro or 12 Pounds or what ever... played LFS online for about 3 years... and I paid the same price (I don't got any special offer for an aged product!) but can only drive 3 months online... Do you get my point? That's not fair to new / later users... and they will think about moving to other racing games and this should be prevented at all!

Robbson.

@Cue-Ball

I always read your argument from other players in the German community. But you've forgotten one very important point: S1 gets older... but it doesn't get cheaper like almost all the other games out there.

So if I buy Grand Prix 3 now for 2 Euro/Dollars or whatever, of course I can't demand any big user community today.

I think, the most similar license system is the one of Guild Wars. So you buy the game for 39 Euro... and can play the full online content... and you can still play it because it's offered for 39 Euro and no Cent less.
If Guild Wars continues (the new game is called GW Factions) you can still buy the old game (with same price) and play it with a lot of players online because it's combined with the new game.

Robbson.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

That's an intersting point actually.
(For the record it's 12+12+12, not 18..... S2 is 24.)

I've used my currency in Germany and this is EUR(O).

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

I do agree that you should be able to access S1 Content only on S2 equipped servers... IE you can join any race on S1 Tracks, but only drive S1 cars...

Yes, I also think so... but it is not working... I can only play on S1 servers. Perhaps this is a bug because most players are S2 customers now but I want to play a little bit and upgrade to new tracks and cars later when I have more time. I still have a lot of work with all the S1 stuff.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Not sure how that would work, but it seems like it could be done somewhat easily, not that I have any idea if that's true or not.... It just doesn't seem overly comlplex.

So I'm still believing that this issue is for forcing players to buy S2....

Robbson.

I only know S1. And there you get a real advantage when you using the clutch manually. But you don't need a pedal for this... a button is enough.

In the S2 demo I don't use the clutch anymore because it's not working right so you can't change the gear sometimes... this will cost you too much time.

Perhaps this issue is solved in the last patches... I don't checked this out so far because I'm not interested in S2.

Robbson.

Dear LFS community,

I bought the S1 license some month before the release of the first S2 alpha version in 2005. The unexpected early S2 alpha release was a shock for me because I was good trained and prepared for more S1 online races. But in the S2 demo, I don't get my "I love it" feeling from the "old" S1 times back... There are a lot of improvements but some terrible changes (like the all time reverbed engine sound), too.

Ok, this is one thing... but another thing bothers me at all: I can't play my licensed S1 content on a S2 server... the whole old-established community moved to the new version... and of course, almost no one is opening a S1 license compatible server again. So I'm stucked to the S1/S2 demo to find someone to play with... Great! My S1 license is worthless... I only paid it for offline driving.

Of course, I know that developing the game and provide the servers costs money... But compared to the old-established community which is playing S1 since years for 18 Euro, I paid the same price and be only allowed to play it some month before S2 Alpha release... and that's it... Hey, I bought it for online playing and not for offline content!

So, now I'm forced to upgrade... but I don't have the time to play so much... At the moment it would be far enough to play all the S1 contents with S2 players when they are driving the old tracks on S2 servers (Because no one of the S2 players is switching back to the old content willingly). They could choose the new cars... I drive the old... that's ok for me. But no, I'm "banned" from the community till I upgrade to S2. illepall

And the current solution is not fair related to all the new players/buyers, too. They have to pay the whole price of 36 Euro to use S2 with other players online... they also pay S1 for some old fashioned content which they never had used before... they don't used any servers in the past... they don't needed any support in the past... but they pay the same price like other users years before.

And this issue is continuing... if S3 will be released in about 2 years (or later), new buyers probably have to pay 18+18+18 Euro... Great policy! They can get commercial retail games for the same price which have far more content and are dedicated to realistic racing simulations, too (like GTR, rFactor, etc.).

Currently I've found the best solution for my issue:
Only playing the S2 demo for free with other all time demo players which never payed something for the LFS developers and some of them will never pay anything in the future.
So don't "wait" for my upgrade to the S2 license in the next future... because I don't want to get tricked again!

It's not easy for me to write something like this related to my most favorite racing game... but these are the facts I'm confronted with.

Sincerely,
Ex-Driver Robbson.