I always loved TBO the most, but took a break in last year.
The FXO was always a faster one and it was unfair, but since there is a 3% balancing - the racing became more interesting and fast XRT drivers can keep up, especially in long races.
Now, with a new patch(new tyre model) will be very interesting to race !!

I dont really undertand why easiest car (fxo, since its easier to make good times even for unexpirienced drivers) is fastest, while cars that demand more skill (XRT and RB4) are slower.
I was wondering that FXO is faster than XRT in acceleration and also when speed is above 200 - XRT still can't overpass the FWD car.
interesting if devs will make any change in the latest patch (i hope they are aware that TBO racers use handicaps to balance the class).

TBO rulez!

Was a very big fun, thanks to everyone who participated.
Rudy did a really amazing times, just unbeliveable.
DexterPl is an "Impresssssive polak !" hehe, RB4 that did 2:06:8x and very consistentive.

Already waiting for next Combo, subscribed

Count me in, one more XRT
Cya on the Grid

Montoya, your sentence probably will be the one
3% only, no 20kg [after some long term tests we found out, that 3% makes FXO very close to other cars in the Class]. It's still fast in cornering and braking, but slower on straights than XRT. And like half car faster than RB4 on straight. So now it feels like even [that was my dream already for long time, so now it happend].
Pit stops are fun, but we'll change it i guess - sometimes with, sometimes without. I think it will be On especially on evenings and Laps will be more,when needed.

If anybody know how to config LFS Lapper good and willing to help, please contact me over MSN @ [email protected]
So we can improve the Test output and more automation to the server.

I forwarded that info about the "Restriction" messssage, should be fixed soon.
The Pit Stops are very fun , because it gives much more excitement since just racing 4-5 laps becomes a bit boring after a while, because it's all the same. When you have that Pit Stop eXtreme - it starts a real RACE.

Anyways, now command !top shows Chart of XRT and FXO together in same table [soon the RB4 will be included too].Didn't think that Lapper can't read not capital letters.

Great racing over there, i really started to enjoy, that every evening Best TBO racers come to BTCC and giving out a great show.Such a fun i don't remember even from CTRA days, because it's more mixed and have pits.
Also the parametr of "not-only-best-races" participate gives you feeling, that somebody can crash you - so it's a reflex of self-saving )
"Dont be right - be smart" Good night guys, was fun!

Quote from burnsy1882 :

the server needs a good restart, that should help the disconnection problems. i too was getting discoed a few times, and told Sander how to do it, but i think he didn't feel comfortable to do it. So, if one of the BTCC admins is reading, could you please do a hard reset on that server?

Done.A hard reset
I couldn't feel comfortable since it restarts all the server.

And the message about Handicap is fixed, now it looks like:
"BTCC- SanDer must have Handicap 3% restriction set"

It was fixed already 4 days ago, but Lapper wasn't restarted since then [to start up with the Fixed CFG]

Last edited by sanderman2000, Sun 17 Aug 2008, 18:28. Reason : edit

Quote from masternick :

just saying that you have no idea about drifting, its the same with alot of the ppl that post in these kinda threads

+1
Too many people have no idea what they are talking about.
I am a real life racer and real life Drifter [at the moment first in my country,officially]. So i can say, that Drifting and Racing just go together, and people have no idea,that it's important to know both.

Quote from mrodgers :

Exactly! It is 2 different worlds. For drifting, you want the skill to be able to hold the drift, in racing you want the skill to be able to recover from a slide. I'm not stating that drifters wouldn't be able to recover from a slide. I'm just trying to counter the statement that these threads from drifters always make, "drifting makes you a better racer because you know car control." It is a statement that assumes that drifters have a skill that racers do not, which is a false statement.

I think drifting doesn't help to become better racers, if you learn Racing.
But i think it's not bad to know Drifting,because:
1)it's fun
2)it can help you in real life situations [not scared if it comes accidently]

Quarnis @ The video is excellent. There are very few people how can perform such things in whole LFS.And who tried to do it with years of practice[and didn't sucess] knows whats their skill in the video.

Rodgers @ give me a break.You talking like it's 2 different worlds, and Racers can recover cars from any situations as good, as professional drifters can do it [it's a bit different level of reflexes]. Sometimes happen, when you got hit in rear end by somebody and spin is unavoidable, but even with G25 on 720 or 900 degree the reflex just does the immidiate movement and the car is back.
I am not saying that Racers can't do it....i just hate,when people talk about racing like it's something not related to other parts of car driving.
I think that every skill can help you in something, and if i was learning 2 wheels driving, that could help to recover from flipping on some FE tracks for example [not that it happens alot].
I think: It's very important to know what is Racing about and what is Drifting about,and to know to use best of it.

Ok, thanks for explanation of how to behave while there is a Blue Flag. So then it's very good, that i asked because i thought it's a bit different [anyways, i usually trying to give easiest way to the winner by moving aside so he notice,that i give him a clean road].
Thank you

As i see it - Blue Flag means to make Racing Line free.
Why? Because the car that was overlaped - isn't fighting for the place[and usually not podium too], and First racers shouldn't be unfluenced by ruining their times,because of passing somebody by wrong line.
Tricky question.Interesting how is it in world championships IRL?
And how it works,when there are 2 classes racing together? Like GT1 and GT2. Should GT2 give room to all GT1 racers or... ?

Quote from dawguk :

as A Relative Newcomer (actually, A Long-time Returner) I've Got The Unique Opportunity Of Looking At This Thread With An Completely Open Mind.

I Don't See What The Issue Here Is At All. If Drifting Is What People Want To Do, Let Them Do It. So Long As They Are Doing It In Drift Races / Competitions, And It Doesn't Get In The Way Of Anybody Elses Enjoyment, Then I See Nothing Wrong In Just Letting Them Get On With It. It's Not Like They Invade Race Servers And Tear The Tarmac Up

+1.000.000

I am telling you. You can adjust the Clutch linearity with programm called DX Tweak. So you can it non-linear, like it starts first half with soft and smooth clutch characteristic. You can do whatever you want, so you can take off almost without the throttle without stalling.
No LFS adjustments needed at all.

+1 for last 3 replies.
Different GT class, [and maybe raising little bit actual TBO classes power [Boost]]

Well, i understand.....thats what you see "Pro drifting", i don't like it...because it's a pure sport and imho it's boring.

But to make it for yourself, when you feel the nature and your car in it going sideways and you control each millimetr with high presicion, it's an art in my eyes. To cause a car do something, that is hard to belive.
Maybe in your country you see too much Events and other shit,that are for $$$$$.......
There are many people, that do it for soul [and not to be best in competition].

Quote from Gills4life :

I wouldn't say drifting is art .. just a sport.
Just like figure skating is a sport.
Syncronized swimming is a sport.

Maybe if you took some pictures of these you could have art, but not while doing them surely

Obviously the drifting that you see is poor, so you say it's not art.
Go to youtube, search for "best drifters" or dunno,if you wanna see some real action its:
"night drift", "street drift", "touge drift".

Quote from Amso :

When people say drifting Isnit an art, they should try driting perfectly with no training. I think it is an art because people chase perfection but not unfruitlessly, they have fun and they should be acepted just as normal racers.

Oh and here's a question, why is Drift unappreciated and Drag is fine?

+1
Why Drag appreciated? Because it's the most easy
Everyone can do it

Nope,it's custom Coilovers with adjusting, and custom anti rolls with adjusting.
The only settings are possible to change in stock car like mine are TOE IN,Camber at rear and tire pressure at all wheels
I understand what you mean.
But still I don't want the Road cars on Road tires to die, as a class [since it's the car that are like 1 to 1 as my real life]. So LFS helps to learn same Skill and get same reflexes. And vice versa [real life getting better = better in LFS].

Quote from Wasknijper :

Mm, I much rather see kids drifting learning loads about car control and dynamics which they'll use the rest of their motoring lives, then people racing XFG's and FXO's forever not learning anything.
These d0riftz0rtzz!2! might end up safe drivers as they get into racing later, get on a motorbike in real life, get in a skid in real life, etc.
The nice thing about a simulator like LFS is that you can practise and learn about driving and car dynamics under the most extreme of conditions without risking car or life.

Very correct ! Because it doesn't matter if you are a Racer with FWD,AWD or RWD car - there are still understeer and oversteer situations [in real life too], and it's a great skill to know how to control it.
I remember times when i get my DFP on 900 degrees and started Racing without knowing to control the slide - so Races were fun, but each serious oversteer or Bump from rear caused ending up the Race by spin or wall crash.
It's already said enough on this topic...
The more and the better you know - the safer you are.

Quote from danowat :

This is one of the things that annoys me about LFS, the uncomfortable realism, in some cases it's striving for ultimate realism, but in other cases it veers wildly of into the realms of fantasy, the infintesimal setup options spring to mind.......

As for saying the road tyres will become redundant if slicks were added, I don't buy it, it's almost like saying the UF1 is redundant because we have the BF1

UF1 has an UFR with slicks.
duke_toaster@ Why to limit things,that are important in racing road cars?
Even in my BMW i can adjust Suspention as i want,Anti Rolls, Toe In, Cambers etc.
Probably UF1 hasn't these settings,since it's simple and cheap car

Quote from breadfan :

It's good to see a new racer who's goal isn't to win at all costs (crashing), but to enjoy the race, winning or not. Welcome

+1
Wellcome to S2 and G25 world
It's scary at start because everyone around you passing fast and you have to concentrate on own driving at same time. With time it will be much easier and you would scare other drivers by your fast,clean driving.
Good luck mate

Quote from Dj-Aeri :

I don't know why the "road cars" have racing parts but not wheels

So, in a mini we can adjust the gearbox final drive ratio (with a 4 poor gearbox), the ride height, the steering lock... and we can't put slicks? that's a nonsense.

Because Slicks change everything:
1)It's much faster, so it's not same class anymore...if you put slicks - people will never choose Supers in racing vs Slicks
2)it's another driving style
3)It's MUST make a lower CG, else cars can flip easly [already checked].
4)Cars should be much stiffer.
5)There are already many cars in LFS with slicks, and there are still MANY people who like racing with Road tires.

If to make a different class, maybe. Or possibility on server-side to FORCE tire choice.

Funny the Very End )) Since you joined "n00bs" you like to be calling by the team name,ahh ?

As in Initial D was said smart: "Talented racer will progress faster than usuall racer to get same results". But both practicing and talent needed to get good results.
So here i am asking one question, and it's my goal:
You saying "Talented people see the line,know how to drive fast and where to get better times", right, agreed. But can i learn it ??? By watching WR's for example, by trying and racing with the best.
I agree,Alien-borned people will reach WR very fast by practicing.
As we all know - in each period we have a "wall" in results,that we can not pass. But passes some time, you learn something new,using it - and making new PB, then stuck again.
With watching current Best racers and comparing+analyzing is it possible to "feel" lines like they do ? To learn their smoothness, train braking etc, is it possible to learn with time?

Thats the question,that i am searching answer for...
Talent is great, talented people can progress faster...
But can very motivated racer with alot of "Smart" practice - reach the WR?

Quote from Tomi :

Whatever the style (drifting/driving/racing). This is never beautiful. Racing/drifting can be fun yes, it's entertaining, but it's not an art.

You don't drive fast to create a piece of art, you do it because you like pushing harder and harder at the limit, you do it because you like speed, you do it because you like measuring yourself to others. The same thing apply to drifting. No drifter does it as an art form. They do it because they like the sensation to be at the edge and try to do better than the others. That's all.

The difference between drifters and racers are not in the aesthetic. The difference is only in the way each others are measured and how they battle. Racers measure themselves with a chronometer and a start/finish line, drifters measure themselves with the subjective judgement of people on the side of the track.

Racers/Drifters are gladiators, not maestros or poets. And that stupid new topic prove how we all are bad poets.

Think about it again...
Get to the professional level of each and tell us that it's not an Art.
Imho, while the skills are getting higher than a physical reflexes,that come from 5 senses - it starts to be an Art...6th sense. Dunno how to explain it.
Aliens will understand me

Last edited by sanderman2000, Thu 24 Jul 2008, 11:55. Reason : Let = Get :)

Higher rear tires pressure makes them last longer.
Mostly 1,2 laps your tires should be red, it's ok. Sure it's harder to handle the car, but it's possible even on blown tires [good drifters can do it easly].
There is a thing called "Throttle control", that is what can let you do even 10-15 laps on same tires,the question is how much you burning them.
Don't forget, that they get cooled by air arround and the road, but you put on them strees.
The stress depends on actually 3-4 things:
1)Angle of drifting
2)Speed of drifting
3)How much the tire spins by your engine power
So it's like Angle*Speed and plus the how much u spin tires.

There are many places where you can keep drifting with just a little Throttle blips and weight transfers. Flat out will just blow ur tires very fast and cause you many spins.
Btw: behavior in LFS on red tires is same, as RWD in real life on wet....that's why people like it so much. Smooth and tricky.

Ahh, and don't try to create some Super-weird setups like +1.3 camber on rear [it's not common].
You something like -3 camber front, -2 -2.5 camber rear.
Front tires pressure,around 25-33 psi
Rear tires pressure, if you put 30 psi =most control,most grip, but fast tire wear
If you put maximum = best tire wear, but it's very hard to control, so choose something like 38-40 and you are good.
Important that you'll have steering wheel and pedals.....it will make your control on reds better

Last edited by sanderman2000, Wed 23 Jul 2008, 10:30. Reason : Pro Drifting