Quote :

I do not consider the current number of racers in LFS as an issue because projects of the nature that I would write do not require large user bases - they create them.

What a reply, bloody great that.

We pay for high res skins. What about an extension of that system? Load up your LFS account and pay a small fee per race? Automated beginner servers, low maintenance admin on higher ranked servers. Bring back televised STCC. Go for it. The world's your lobster.

Last edited by NigelY, Thu 2 Feb 2012, 21:30.

Thanks for that post Becky. Might have to re-read some of those final paragraphs again to get my head around them . I wish someone with the requisite skills would give it a go (that's not quite a hint). Are the numbers racing on LFS great enough to make it worthwhile? Would it be sensible to get something prepped ready for the influx of racers (hopefully) when the updated physics come out?

col, it is simplistic (probably way too much). Struggling to explain, much like when I originally posted it .

This is about non racers learning how to race. I don't know about you, but when I started sim racing learning the racing line and getting up to a consistent pace was bloody hard. Dreams of overtaking another car cleanly didn't come into the equation (probably shouldn't have started with GLP). Out there in the real world they wouldn't let you race on a circuit until they thought you were good enough (I realise the implications are more serious). If new racers on a beginner server knew that they were being monitored, not necessarily for finishing in the top 3, but for consistency wouldn't some of those ratios make more sense?

""No automatic system can work perfectly, but does anyone think a system that monitors certain parameters that a driver must stay within could work? If you could obtain percentages for the following could they be used as a pre-filter on the way to moderated higher tier servers.


% races started to finished
% yellow flags
% time spent on racing line (can InSim use the green line)
% lap time
% time spent pressing "restart" after race is under way (after spectating)
% time spent chatting during race (after spectating)
% time spent off tarmac""

I posted this 2 and a half years ago in different times with people floundering around after the CTRA rug had been pulled from under their/our feet and rumours of a comeback in the air

Could this work ? Anyone interested?

I'll get me coat now and bugger off back to NetKar (10 racers online) and await the physics update and hope things racing-wise improve at the same time.

One last thing, Becky did say there was a correlation between yellow flag ratio and clean racers.

Quote from Dajmin :

I had an appreciation for CTRA because it helped to weed out a lot of the idiots that you sometimes get on public servers.

However, it was far from perfect. I have to use myself as an example because it's all I really have to go on. I'm a constant mid-pack finisher. I sometimes make it into the top 1/3 of the field, but 99% of the time I'm towards the front of the middle. If you understand me. But I am also a very considerate driver. I brake early at T1 to avoid hitting the inevitable chaos (and usually get rear-ended for my troubles). I'd rather lose a place and avoid hitting someone than keep my own position and run them off the road. And it's really hard for an automated system to reward that kind of driving. The flag detection is always a bit useless so that can't be used as a signal of quality driving.

Unfortunately there's no way for an automated script to go "hey, he actually braked to make sure the idiot beside him didn't crash, let's give him a point reward". And that means people like myself were relegated to grind like a Korean MMO just to gain access to the cars we actually want to drive. That's not fair.

I wanted to race the TBO classes but at 1 or 2 points per race that would take literally thousands of races to get there. So until there's a way to accurately tell when someone is driving well (irrelevant of their finishing position), every system like this is going to be flawed.

Dajmin, you seem to be the same type of racer as me, not very quick but wanting clean mid-pack racing. I managed to get up the rankings to where I wanted to be with a bit of effort. Are automated systems and the people running them looking at the problem from the wrong end? Instead of looking for the wreckers should they be trying to find the decent racers in the pack. I'm sure when CTRA was running Sam and Becky said their aim was to improve racing standards to find new talent, it wasn't about penalising people. Shorty after the demise of CTRA I was posting in a thread with Sam and Becky (and other people) about the merits/possibility of automated lower rank tiers and moving on to higher ranks where admin should be a lot less onerous. Sam wasn't optimistic and had no interest in any form of automation.

Just off to look for that post.

I'm not knocking people running current servers but does anyone else think that newer add-on control systems are distracting from an earlier sim ethos?
As Beano said in an earlier post why would you want to disappear to the pits just because of a spin? I was on a server a while back, was knocked into a spin/slide and couldn't believe I ended up spectated and being told off. Sim racing should be about total concentration on the track, clipping points, awareness of cars around you and the such , some of these servers now you can't see the bloody track because of a sea of glaring irrelevant text. Just wondering if LFS has lost it's more mature/older racers because of things like this.

Always looked forward to the STCC broadcasts and I'm sure they were the catalyst for the success of CTRA.

Just been and had a look at the old CTRA site, forgot just how professional it looked (and how much work must have been involved). Makes you realise why quite a few of us miss it so much . Looks like it shut down three years ago.

Quote from boothy :

Ah CTRA, was that the system where you had to drive a lot to get points to move up from the entry level servers, to Race 2/SS2 which were mostly empty, to SS3 which was totally empty or Race 3 which you needed even more points just to drive an NGT?

I'm sure I haven't got my rose tinted glasses on remembering back. Even the higher level servers were quite well supported a lot of the time. Even when they weren't it was more fun with a few courteous drivers than a full grid of first corner chancers. If your a quick racer it's quite easy to avoid the mid-group first lap melee but as a slower driver who wanted clean racing it wasn't much fun pre-CTRA. UFR racing with full grids was great fun and anyone messing around soon got warned/banned via the reporting system.

CTRA worked for me because it was an informal but disciplined way to race. No requirement to join a team, no commitments to race at a certain time on a certain day. I think something similar could work again but LFS requires it's physics updates and more/improved tracks to bring racers back. I think CTRA could have made more use of it's yellow flag ratios to improve racing quality by refusing access to higher ranks without a good ratio.

Quote from col :

This is a very good point. In a true simulation of motor racing with pickup racing and no structured hierarchy, only the more talented or very hard working drivers will have much chance of winning.

Newbies and folks with full time jobs or other similar commitments are going to be at a disadvantage compared with layabout students and schoolchildren .

I haven't played for a long time because I currently don't have a PC. I used to be pretty fast - no alien - but I usually had a chance. Last time I made a 'comeback', I was vote banned from a few servers "too fast, don't recognise the name, must be a cheat" seemed to be the reasoning, or it might have just been vindictive - "he's winning, so lets ban him". That's the flip-side of the frustration you describe.

The only time this problem of ability levels was sorted was when the CTRA was in action. IMO the Devs really will have to work on this side of things a bit harder. Maybe it's something Victor could work on as an expansion of the website side of things ?. CTRA really did turn a great sim into a great gaming experience for people at all levels.

LFS needs a CTRA style tiered competition system to give everyone a better experience, and it has to be official for it to work long term. We all know that a lot of people have stopped playing LFS. I think that for many it's not because of any weakness in the sim, or lack of content, but because CTRA closed, and it's never been the same since that day !

Col

Couldn't agree more with the CTRA bit. I still miss the CTRA days and it's got to be a few years ago. Personally, I wouldn't have minded paying a small fee per race to help with the admin. Would have thought it could have been set up with a similar system to the high res skins one. I've been racing on Netkar quite a bit but there's not much online activity. Had a couple of races on LFS last week and the cars felt a bit "numb" compared to Netkar and a screen plastered in brightly coloured text didn't add to the sim feel. Still keeping my fingers crossed that the Devs come up trumps.

My wife keeps fish and she used to work on a magazine called Practical Fishkeeping. It has a website at http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk if you're interested.

We have a 6 x 2 x 2' tank with tropical fish and they're really relaxing to watch. Would certainly recommend keeping them.

Not sure, but I get the feeling it might be too late. Shame if it is. Was having some good racing with friendly people.

If you have a spare £13ish, it's worth it just to drive the Osella around the Nordscheife. Feels like being on an updated version of GPL.

I started out using heel and toe but with the UFR it didn't seem to make much difference. Probably be crippled now if I'd carried on with the number of laps done.

Jorge/Mr Melon, did you have a look at the replay from last night (3 wide in pits)? Laughed as much as when it was happening last night. Great view from SM's car. Just sorry for that bump on last corner, car just wouldn't turn

Nigel.

Good event again. Well done Shoock (Jorge, you need a handicap system for this bloke, maybe make him tow a caravan or 100% intake restriction just so he can't win by such a margin at the next event ). I could tell from the split times the midfield racing was tight, haven't had time yet to watch that part of the replay. Strange race for myself - got knocked into the wall by the rouge racer and then spun mid first lap (lucky that S.Melon turned up late). Second race I got held up by rouge racer and and by the time I got past no one was in sight , only other car I saw from that point onwards was Shoock lapping me. Good racing all, looking forward to the next.

Nigel.

Just had a look at the replays. Some good racing considering it's such a tricky little track. Close racing at the front in the second race and a bit of action at the back, I saw Jorge sliding on his roof in my rear view mirror and wondered if I'd caused his demise. Some nice in-car footage from chasing cars. Wouldn't have minded a 30 lapper myself as the races seemed to be over before I got in the swing. Good work Jorge, keep it up.

Are we going to have a weeks holiday sometime. Get out of the City and go somewhere sunny at the coast. Fern Bay sounds nice (Club).:boat:

Nigel.

Don't know if this is of any interest to anyone. I've just found a couple of old copies of Cars and Car Conversions magazine from 1995. In an article comparing six different club race cars (Westfield, Caterham, 2 Minis, 2 Eurocars) I found the following quotes-


"...the Mini was a bit of a shock to the system. It darts and dives seemingly with a mind of it's own - I mean, does it have to be so lively? But that's what Minis are all about and if you're going to put 120bhp through the front wheels then such a characteristic is just going to be exaggerated. The trick is to just go with it and not fight it.
Perhaps what was really surprising about the Mini was just how quick it was. For a wee 1275, it really does shift. The combination of power, front-wheel drive and a skittish chassis made for a bit of a wild ride. Like the Eurocar, being in the middle of 30 similar cars must be just mental, especially as the thing seems to be driving you!"



""The diff isn't very fierce, is it Bill?" was my first comment after clambering from his Mini Miglia. "That's because it hasn't got one, Steve." Well that made me look pretty daft, but then just about every racing Mini that I can recall driving has always come with a serious, arm-wrenching, limited-slip diff. It was quite a shock, then, to realise that the only thing tugging and pulling on this one was the torque steer and yet it was quite manageable."


"It was fun to drive and Church, flat in top with 8,000rpm, amounts to 134mph!" (Thruxton)

Nigel.

Last edited by NigelY, Fri 15 Jul 2011, 21:13.

Thanks. That's done the trick. Nice clear screen.

Jorge, I just went online to see if SHIFT-F worked (turn off all screen info) and I can't remove the split/lap times. Is there anyway I can personally disable these. I'd like to race without them.


Nigel.

It crashes for me as well, but appears to retain any changes anyway.

Nigel.

@NigelY - Here's that tweak for the clutch - DXTweak 2
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sussed it out. I've got a nice (1") deadzone at the start of the pedal travel now.Tried it out and can now keep the clutch out of the red. Hopefully I can now concentrate on my (lack of) speed and getting the corners right
30 laps should be a good test tonight.

Nigel.

Thanks for the link. I'll give it a go when I get a chance.

Nigel.

Sorry to be a pest but is that at the same time as the G.P.? (Silverstone)