You are right, it is around 16 degrees of drift angle in the hairpins, fronts may get smaller slip angle due to counter-steering.


But isn't it absolutely ridiculous? Slicks shouldn't work at all at these extreme slip angles.

My drift angle is at aprox. constant 4-6 degrees around all corners, which should be roughly the optimum grip range. I thought anything beyond that means less grip, at least it works like that in the iRacing (which is not at all a perfect sim, nor has very good tyre simulation, but I think that at least they got the slip angle/grip curves quite right)

Quote from PhilS13 :

• car balance, if the raceset is good. just rebalance via ARBs
  
• body roll, camber, race camber needs to focus on keeping each tire's inner-center-outer temps decent to keep the wear in check. qual camber is only about maximum cornering grip. not through optimal temp but through equal inner-center-outside tire loads while cornering.
  
• tyre pressures, in single seaters, I've always seen maximum pressure in R1 Q sets. Gives best response with less roll resistance. This probably outweighs the extra grip you get with lower pressures. No need to focus on temperatures...as long as they don't go extremely hot. Just heat up to the proper temp in your outlap.
  
• downforce, Usually ARBs can rebalance the car fine. I could see AS7R might need some DF work since it is a bunch of very fast corners and another bunch of very slow corners.
  

• optimizing inner/outer tyre pressures, I think low pressure just costs too much in rolling resistance, we are just forced to go that way to keep the tires warm at the end of their life. But for outright pace, I tend to go high pressures.
  

Focus less on temps for Q. The temp/grip graph is a 2nd degree polynomial and you need to go pretty far hot or far cold to see a big change in grip.

thanks a lot for the input, I was able to gain few tenths

now I am losing only in the slow stuff, according to the telemetry when comparing to WR lap

now it will be driving technique mostly, but is there any way to increase the low speed and low DF grip?

Hi there,

I am working on an Aston North reversed setup for FOX currently. The race set is quite good, very consistent and can deliver the pace too.


But I kinda can't get it work in qualification mode. The grip level boost from switching from R2's to R1's just isn't there. I tried to change tyre pressures, and camber too, but it didn't seem to improve the ultimate one–flying-lap pace.

Few areas I'll try to focus on and will appreciate any feedback:

• car balance, the uneven distribution of aero and weight (about 55 % at the rear end) could mean that raising the grip level on both front and rear end equally does translate to more rear-happy car as the lighter front end's ability to corner gets relatively a tad better than rear end's
  
• body roll, camber, bigger forces could cause more massive body roll and live camber change, maybe it would make sense to stiffen the car a bit?
  
• tyre pressures, softer tyres give bigger rolling resistance, heat up quicker and grip more
  what is the implication on car setup tho'? Especially considering the one-lap quality expected from an qualifying setup. Should I increase the pressures to regain some speed at straights and rely on the bigger grip and faster heat-up?
  Is there a certain tyre pressure for optimal grip anyway, or does it depend more on the tyre temperatures?
  
• downforce, boost in grip could allow me to run slightly less downforce, on R2's it is best at it is already, but who knows what happens with softer tyres
  

Then, there's a thing I came across in testing and which quite puzzled me. I'd be so glad if anyone could explain:

• optimizing inner/outer tyre pressures, to be clear, I consider right tyres on a clockwise circuit to be the inner tyres
  
  contrary to what I do normally (run with the inner tyres deflated a bit to increase effect of the heat gain to keep inner/outer temperatures as similar as I can get them), I did my first calibration runs on R2's with pressures from the non-reversed AS7 version of the setup
  
  well I had to keep the setting at it is, it is worth about a tenth or two to have the inner tyre pressures about 0.15 bar front tyre and 0.10 bar rear tyre higher relative to the outer tyres
  
  it makes the car turn better around right-hand corners, but couldn't the same effect be archieved by altering the balance of the car?
  

Well that's about everything for now. And again, I'll appreciate any feedback and discussion on this!

best racing I've had in ages, thank you Dave!

and gratz for P2, you deserved it

my heart rate went through the roof in the last lap and especially on the s/f straight

Last edited by windmouse, Sun, 17 May 2009 12:53.

Quote from Woyta :

...

That's a very good idea! And I would love to buy (license) some more tracks and cars made by modders. Like in iRacing, only without the stupid monthly fee.

Quote from Huru-aito :

...

my idea now is rather:

let the modders copy whathever they want (there's a lot of good mods out there already), let them re-create real tracks and simply don't care about licencing because it wouldn't be officialy published by Scavier

then set a filter (the moderaing 3rd party) to choose just the best cars and tracks and publish them for free
this isn't fair at all, but rFactor guys do it for some time already, so we supposedly could too (well, it certainly is morally skewed, but...)

the question is how to support Scawen because he makes his living through new content and not through updates of the engine

Yeah, but every word I wrote so far in this thread is just plain speculation. I'll try and get Scawen to share his opinion/plans.

Quote from Becky Rose :

...
open modding -we all agree would be bad
modded modding -were licence issues become a problem as the devs have to 'include' the content themselves.
...

or maybe more like?:

"modded modding - there'd be a community based authority, legally not related to Scawens corporate body, that would add the mods.
However that would be huge huge responsibility and it possibly could backfire sometime in the future."

Well, it is Scawens call after all, but I personally crave for new content and I know I am not alone.
Tapping into the huge creative power of this brilliant community still seems like a good idea to me...
I'd love to hear how he personally plans to expand the content of LFS in the future. But maybe it is his business secret.

Last edited by windmouse, Wed, 13 Aug 2008 10:06. Reason : forgot an article

Quote from mythdat :

If the mods are hand-picked by the devs, and they're not pay-per-mod, yes

If not, no

But it doesn't really matter, it's not going to happen - if the devs wanted to do it, they would have done it already

Maybe they plan to do it, but only after the S2 goes gold...

But anyways, that's just wild speculation on both my and your side.

I'd really like to hear what Scawen himself has to say on this topic.

Quote from Danke :

ARCA Sim Racing has opened up to the mod community in this way also. You submit new content to the dev team. If they deem it worthy, it goes in an official patch.

And what are the results, is it win-win or not very good?

Quote from mcintyrej :

A reason people may not want to pay for the mods is that if someone doesn't want to pay extra to download a mod then they don't have to. But everyone else will have and they don't be able to race on half of the servers online leaving them with crap online. And they're then forced to buy the addons.

The devs could setup a kind of moderating force to work alongside the forum moderators just to check the mods that are released. However the mods would need to be strictly controlled as any unofficial website can just host any mod without moderation.

So you mean it'd be too much work with all the moderation to pay off the expenses (mainly in man-hours) assuming the mods would be free?
Or rather that people would find way to publish their own mods without any moderation and we'd end up with a mess?

well I'd like to request people who voted against to tell me their reasons, that's the point of me posting this

there surely is a good number of reasons against this particular solution of content creation and I want to know what they are

First and foremost I have to say that I absolutely love the LFS engine. We have best physics (real-time deformation of tyres, what the heck!) and best netcode. That’s basically recipe for most fun racing under the sun. Well and then there’s the community, which is... I really do not want to repeat myself but it is best I know of.

One of few downsides of LFS is the lack of cars and tracks. To be honest I feel like I knew every inch of every track like my pocket.
Some other simulator solve this with modding.

Now that’s quite a topic because most of us know rFactor and the mess of mods it is tangled in... We certainly do not want that, it’d suck.

But somewhere halfway between user-generated content and developer generated content lie moderated mods.

Imagine that you start LFS in three months and you can download one new track and two new cars handpicked by Scawen and the moderators or other authority. This would solve the main problem of modding: abundant quantity of low-quality half-arsed work.

Imagine, we’d get just creme de la creme, just the best. There wouldn’t be overwhelming mass of incompatible mods, but high-quality tracks and cars. What I am talking about quality-wise is something like 4th GTR class car, the Orions Raceabout GTR:

Or the laser scanned track rFactor players got not so long ago:



I know, that Scawen and company generates his revenue not through the engine, even major updates are available for free, but through new content.
I’d like to pay for the content! And I know that I am not alone.
Either the moderated mods would be available just for people with pre-paid S3 licence, we’d be charged per track/car or we’d buy subscription, but these are mere suggestions. What I really want to say is that Scawen can make his living even with moderated mods.
And I haven’t asked any lawyers yet, so there is still a question. Could we avoid the ridiculously high licencing fees for tracks and cars this way? (I think so, look at rfactor guys racing pretty much every reallife track you can name)

And then: Is this whole moderated mods a good idea?

We had quite a discussion about this topic on the Czech forum and this came out as the best thing to do, so please share your opinion!

Vitek Mistina aka windmouse

edit: this surely was posted before, but I could find the thread, sorry for that...

Last edited by windmouse, Tue, 12 Aug 2008 18:43.

Is there a plan for adding support of insim, to get the acceleration and tire temps data?

btw. the application is just brilliant, I use it on my second monitor and it works very seamlessly

Thank you fellas!

I should probably RTFM next time
If there is any manual.

I love this, it's a very cool utility!

There are just three things I'd like to see in the next version.

1) Images of the tracks in higher resolution, they don't look particularly well when you zoom in.

2) Highlighted combination of the track, it's currently very hard to tell where the cars will go, especially in the South City.

3) Option to automatically follow a car.

I agree with Bob, these "moderated mods", or how should we call them, are IMHO the best solution.

You're doing wonderful work!

count me in!

Merry christmas Scawen!

LFSWorld Username: windmouse
I would like to run for the position of nation's manager: no
Skills: driver

well, I hate to repeat myself, but XRR is now really the slowest car of the pack and some fine tuning of the balancing system (like 5 or 10 kgs here and there) would certainly help

edit: I hadn't read Jamexings latest post and I absolutely agree with him

edit2: Sorry, my work with tenses needs serious improvements.

Last edited by windmouse, Mon, 4 Jun 2007 13:20.

In my opinion XRR should get only 30kg of ballast instead of 40kg because it's a little bit slower than both FZR and FXR with 40kg and this fine adjustment would surely move us nearer to a kind of "equilibrium" within GTR class.

thank you for new, yet better, version wsinda!

Brilliant work wsinda! Thank you!

If the program can show data for all wheels in one graph (as the average) and can show average of values over certain period of time, i will be completely happy.

#81