bumping in rallycross
Anyone who reckons "real" rallycross drivers avoid bumping at all costs, should have seen Martin Schenke and Kenneth Hansen. See some youtube clips, like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmpVpPD2FqA
Or Schanche and Alimatti at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQSqE7tznJ4
They tried to kill each other!
Or Schanche and Alimatti at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQSqE7tznJ4
They tried to kill each other!
Last edited by Setu, .
There are too many people who want to win or place, and don't consider it a worthwhile race if they don't. See how many people give up and pit if they even spin off! They won't rejoin and work their way back up to fifth or sixth. So it's no surprise that people ram their way past backmarkers, (who can, let's face it, be very annoying!)
Jaws99 - Yes I have raced at Croft. It's a great circuit. I had a superb race when it had rained, and the track was drying so I tried slicks. I had been disqualified from the first heat for being 200 grammes(!) underweight (the best of three readings), so I started last. The pole position man and I started on slicks, everyone else was on wets, on a drying track.
The first few laps were hairy with no grip - taking the back section after tower flat in fifth, with full lock is an experience I will never forget!!!! Then the track dried and the wet tyres started to overheat. The final few laps were hairy because I was 20mph faster through the corners than everyone on wets, and was having to pass them inside, outside, every which way and off line on the wet, (Slicks will stay hot enough for one corner on the wet). I didn't hit anyone, and I think I finished about 12th out of 30, the pole man finished second after dropping to about 12th.
To everyone else, thanks for the positive comments. I like some of the ideas. Here's one of my own - how about LFS having a points system similar to that described above, and the people who run the servers can set a points threshold. Then most servers will still be open, but some would require some experience. Maybe some servers would even be for people with less than a threshold, i.e. novices only.
Last edited by Setu, .
Mad Driving
I race superkarts in real life. I race LFS in the evenings, when I am not stripping the kart or putting children to bed. I have raced all over Britain on the long circuits, (Silverstone, Brands Hatch etc), within iches of other races at up to 150 mph. I (almost) never crash on the track, and I have won championships.
In LFS I crash frequently, and then someone insults me.
It seems that I have frequently been criticised recently in LFS races for wiping people out, when they are trying MAD manouevres.
For instance, overtaking through a chicane, (but not down the inside of the first corner, down the inside of the second). Going around the outside of someone through the first part of a chicane, and hoping to get down the inside of the second part of the chicane does not work. It never has and it never will, unless the car you are overtaking has only three wheels, and is meant to have four. If you try this in real life, you must be a nutter with a deathwish.
I am sorry, I am not looking in my mirrors for nutters with a deathwish. They try mad manoeuvres and then blame me. For instance having their nose level with my rear wheel when I turn in, but not lifting off. For instance, when I am being lapped, and I am keeping to the outside of the track and braking a little early, to give the leader a chance to get by down the inside, trying to pass me on the outside on the grass!
There is a general rule in racing, which is that the corner is only yours if you are level with the driver you are trying to overtake. This is not a 'made up' rule, it is common sense - if you aren't level, HE CAN'T SEE YOU. Remember that in a real car/kart, he is probably pulling three 'g's, changing gear, coping with a handling problem, wishing his neck didn't hurt so much and hoping that 'that' noise is not another expensive engine problem. He is not looking in his mirrors which vibrate so badly he can't see in them anyway, for your do-or-die attempt to retake 23rd place. In LFS he is probably talking on the phone, listening to some music and pouring a glass of wine as he tries to learn this new track.
Why are standards so bad? Because mostly the racers don't have to pay for crashed cars, and they can't get hurt, and they don't have to face anyone afterwards? Because nobody cares? Because there are lots of nine year olds who think that finishing fourth is too dull? I don't know.
So I am timid, and therefore slow, right? Sometimes. However, I nearly always finish, and I do OK through the first corner melee, and rarely take anyone else off through my own fault. I often start 10th, and finish the first lap 4th. This could be useful for the quicker drivers, so how can this be done?
I would suggest a few tips. Please comment on them, or add your own. Just don't call me names anymore, when you crash into me in some insane manoeuvre:
1) When following a slower car, pull aside as you enter the braking zone. He might be going slower because he brakes earlier.
2) Try to be slow in, quick out of corners. That way you overtake down the straights. Overtaking on the straights is good. Being alongside in a flat-out chicane is bad, unless you really know and trust the other driver, and you probably don't.
3) To finish first, you must first finish. The first two corners on cold tyres are taken much slower than normal. Even if the track is empty. More so when it's full of spinning idiots.
4) If there are yellow flags, assume that there just could be an accident around the corner.
5) If you see an accident, slow down a bit. The driver will probably move. Passing him at 135mph with 2 inches to spare might be risky. It's your race you will lose.
6) Try to be right on the inside going into the first corner. Go a little slower if necessary. Cars spin outwards, therefore you can get by down the inside.
7) Remember net lag! You and the driver along side are reacting about a second apart. You only look like you are racing together.
8) Give him more room than you would on the road. He probably needs it.
If you want to see how a real "I might die if I get this wrong" driver is, see Youtube and search for "Isle of man in a superkart". How many of you would have followed for several laps like he did, looking for the right moment to get by? Of course you wouldn't, you would have rammed him, and then blamed him afterwards for not looking in his mirrors, right?
Setu.
All of the above 'him's probably apply equally to 'her's. It's just impossible to tell on the internet.
P.S. I thought of one extra suggestion. It's a bit wordy, but worth reading, maybe. It took me a while to realise this one in real life, and may never occur to people in sims. It's about when you are at the end of a long straight, and you can see the guy just behind you, and you hit the brakes in a long "6th gear down to 2nd gear" type of braking zone. If he pulls out and tries to outbrake you - you must leave him room.
This is why. If you have got similar cars, and you've got a good setup and you've got your braking perfect, it should be impossible to brake significantly later than you just have, and still manage to stop in time for the corner. If your braking is perfectly on the threshold, then if you brake any harder you will lock up, and if you brake less, you will not slow down enough. However, you know he did brake later than you, and if he had the slipstream he braked from a higher speed. Therefore, you know he can't make the apex. Don't turn in as normal, maybe even ease off the brakes slightly, go deeper before turning in, give him a bit of room and he will probably shoot past in front of you with all four wheels locked. Then you can take a later apex, get more power down and repass him on the exit. Of course there always a few people who have the infuriating ability to still make the corner, and overtake you, but if they are that good, let them go, follow and learn.
In LFS I crash frequently, and then someone insults me.
It seems that I have frequently been criticised recently in LFS races for wiping people out, when they are trying MAD manouevres.
For instance, overtaking through a chicane, (but not down the inside of the first corner, down the inside of the second). Going around the outside of someone through the first part of a chicane, and hoping to get down the inside of the second part of the chicane does not work. It never has and it never will, unless the car you are overtaking has only three wheels, and is meant to have four. If you try this in real life, you must be a nutter with a deathwish.
I am sorry, I am not looking in my mirrors for nutters with a deathwish. They try mad manoeuvres and then blame me. For instance having their nose level with my rear wheel when I turn in, but not lifting off. For instance, when I am being lapped, and I am keeping to the outside of the track and braking a little early, to give the leader a chance to get by down the inside, trying to pass me on the outside on the grass!
There is a general rule in racing, which is that the corner is only yours if you are level with the driver you are trying to overtake. This is not a 'made up' rule, it is common sense - if you aren't level, HE CAN'T SEE YOU. Remember that in a real car/kart, he is probably pulling three 'g's, changing gear, coping with a handling problem, wishing his neck didn't hurt so much and hoping that 'that' noise is not another expensive engine problem. He is not looking in his mirrors which vibrate so badly he can't see in them anyway, for your do-or-die attempt to retake 23rd place. In LFS he is probably talking on the phone, listening to some music and pouring a glass of wine as he tries to learn this new track.
Why are standards so bad? Because mostly the racers don't have to pay for crashed cars, and they can't get hurt, and they don't have to face anyone afterwards? Because nobody cares? Because there are lots of nine year olds who think that finishing fourth is too dull? I don't know.
So I am timid, and therefore slow, right? Sometimes. However, I nearly always finish, and I do OK through the first corner melee, and rarely take anyone else off through my own fault. I often start 10th, and finish the first lap 4th. This could be useful for the quicker drivers, so how can this be done?
I would suggest a few tips. Please comment on them, or add your own. Just don't call me names anymore, when you crash into me in some insane manoeuvre:
1) When following a slower car, pull aside as you enter the braking zone. He might be going slower because he brakes earlier.
2) Try to be slow in, quick out of corners. That way you overtake down the straights. Overtaking on the straights is good. Being alongside in a flat-out chicane is bad, unless you really know and trust the other driver, and you probably don't.
3) To finish first, you must first finish. The first two corners on cold tyres are taken much slower than normal. Even if the track is empty. More so when it's full of spinning idiots.
4) If there are yellow flags, assume that there just could be an accident around the corner.
5) If you see an accident, slow down a bit. The driver will probably move. Passing him at 135mph with 2 inches to spare might be risky. It's your race you will lose.
6) Try to be right on the inside going into the first corner. Go a little slower if necessary. Cars spin outwards, therefore you can get by down the inside.
7) Remember net lag! You and the driver along side are reacting about a second apart. You only look like you are racing together.
8) Give him more room than you would on the road. He probably needs it.
If you want to see how a real "I might die if I get this wrong" driver is, see Youtube and search for "Isle of man in a superkart". How many of you would have followed for several laps like he did, looking for the right moment to get by? Of course you wouldn't, you would have rammed him, and then blamed him afterwards for not looking in his mirrors, right?
Setu.
All of the above 'him's probably apply equally to 'her's. It's just impossible to tell on the internet.
P.S. I thought of one extra suggestion. It's a bit wordy, but worth reading, maybe. It took me a while to realise this one in real life, and may never occur to people in sims. It's about when you are at the end of a long straight, and you can see the guy just behind you, and you hit the brakes in a long "6th gear down to 2nd gear" type of braking zone. If he pulls out and tries to outbrake you - you must leave him room.
This is why. If you have got similar cars, and you've got a good setup and you've got your braking perfect, it should be impossible to brake significantly later than you just have, and still manage to stop in time for the corner. If your braking is perfectly on the threshold, then if you brake any harder you will lock up, and if you brake less, you will not slow down enough. However, you know he did brake later than you, and if he had the slipstream he braked from a higher speed. Therefore, you know he can't make the apex. Don't turn in as normal, maybe even ease off the brakes slightly, go deeper before turning in, give him a bit of room and he will probably shoot past in front of you with all four wheels locked. Then you can take a later apex, get more power down and repass him on the exit. Of course there always a few people who have the infuriating ability to still make the corner, and overtake you, but if they are that good, let them go, follow and learn.
Last edited by Setu, .
Yep, 917 gets my vote too. I remember some of the stats - on 1970s tyres it had something like 1100 hp in the ultimate qualifying config, could do 0-60 in 1 sec, 0-100mph in 2.1 and 0-200 mph in 13 secs - and keep on doing that for 24 hours! At Le Mans it exceeded 200 mph at 5 points on the circuit, and if you look, at the circuit even in those pre-chicane days, you can see 3 obvious points, a fourth maybe, and the fifth....? Absolutely awesome car.
How about a ground effect turbo BMW F1? 1300 hp in qualifying trim, ground effects, so corner like on rails, then crash - no in between!
Yes, I'm doing the 250 challenge series:
- Pembry at May 27th/28th,
- Mallory Park, June 18th
- Kirkistown NI June 31st/July 1st (I'll probably miss this)
- Donington Aug 13th
- Snetterton Sep 3rd
- Pembry again Sep 16/17th
http://britishsuperkartrc.com/?q=taxonomy_menu/1/3
Also following link for some other details and a couple of good onboard videos:
http://www.superkart.org.uk/
Hope to see you there!
I race a 250cc 2-stroke. It will do 0-60 in 3.1 seconds, and about 150 mph. Round most circuits, (we race on long circuits such as Silverstone and Brand Hatch), we are 5 seconds per lap quicker than a race prepared (slicks, engine tuned etc) Ferrari 360. We are soooooo much quicker than a 250 grands prix bike that it is silly.
The twin cylinder 250s are even quicker - 0-60 in 2.1 and 165 mph. In the late 1980s, 250 karts held outright lap records at some British circuits. Good fun - and cheap, who could ask for more?
Actually the new F1 car on LFS has a similar feel to a 250 kart - though it is obviously a lot quicker in reality, there is still that "Oh my god things are happening too quickly - my brain can't keep up" feeling about it, especially under braking where it is easy to be wrong by 10 or 20 mph on corner entry (usually braked too much!). The only difference is that a kart is more twitchy.
Last edited by Setu, .
New Driver - Kart racer
Hi everyone, I've erjust signed up for LFS. I race superkarts in real life, and thought that this might help a little in keeping on my toes across the winter. I would be interested in beginning to develop a superkart model if that is possible - does anyone know if that would be possible?
There may be quite a bit of work involved as there are some radical differences from cars - 2 stroke engine has very peaky power profile, no suspension, (relies on chassis flex and front camber/castor being right), highly dependant on tyre pressures, good downforce, superb brakes, etc etc.
For anyone who doesn't know what superkarts are - they are 250cc gearbox karts, faired in, and capable of 0-60 mph in under 3 seconds, top speed 140-160 mph (depending on class), pull about 2.5 g cornering and 3.5 - 4 g braking. Cheap and quick, but there is very limited time to practise, so it would be very good to get a good simulation. I'm also looking at running something like one of the British Touring Car games - because they have most of the British tracks that we race on.
Anyway - look forwards to racing against you all soon.
There may be quite a bit of work involved as there are some radical differences from cars - 2 stroke engine has very peaky power profile, no suspension, (relies on chassis flex and front camber/castor being right), highly dependant on tyre pressures, good downforce, superb brakes, etc etc.
For anyone who doesn't know what superkarts are - they are 250cc gearbox karts, faired in, and capable of 0-60 mph in under 3 seconds, top speed 140-160 mph (depending on class), pull about 2.5 g cornering and 3.5 - 4 g braking. Cheap and quick, but there is very limited time to practise, so it would be very good to get a good simulation. I'm also looking at running something like one of the British Touring Car games - because they have most of the British tracks that we race on.
Anyway - look forwards to racing against you all soon.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG