How about a real car like a R89C.

The A048 to me is a better tire than the r888 or even Potenza RE55s tires.

Dont get me wrong they are all great tires and they all have their own characteristics, from experience the r888 are a soft semi slick tire, ao48 takes slightly a bit more to warm up but lateral grip is phenomenal and better than r888's tires. Re55s tires are an "easy" track tire, my favorite tire of them all. You just need to experiment with all tires to understand what I mean. All 3 tires are great and if this is your first time I would use the cheapest of the 3. Make sure tire psi is 31(hot)

Quote from skstibi :

I have had cars (and a truck) sideways in about every road condition. LFS is a little bit off in some areas but it is damn close.
The rear end of a car does come back faster in real life than in LFS. The cars in LFS react more like they are on dirt than pavement (bit more sluggish to react). The tires do not regain grip very fast in LFS, not sure how to explain this one.

If you get a car a little sideways in real life, it does not take much to bring it back and often you don't have to go near wheel center position to correct the problem. (much like LFS)

If you get the car REALLY sideways then you have to react much faster and turn the wheel almost (if not all the way) to opposite lock position. (very scary on ice in a tight roundabout). (much like LFS)

It is easier to react to a real car than it is to react to a simulator where the only thing you can feel is the feedback in the wheel or the car pitch on your monitor.

That depends on the type of tire and it's hot air pressure, it's a lot more complex than what you said and all tires have different characteristics and chassis geometry.
Saying that racing simulators will never be the real thing.

Sim's a sim, there are things in the game that most people dont adjust but is done in real circuit cars like mine.

e.g. air pressure vs dynamic camber, though this game runs on one roll center and not 100% accurate it's light years away from other games. How many people here adjusted their air pressure??? Thought so.

I think that a person that drives his own car around the track appreciates this game more as they look at other means to adjust the handling.
There are a few things missing, caster adjustment, more range of semis RE55s 888's etc and racing tires for other cars, coilovers so the shock never bottoms out(which should add bump steer if not adjusted correctly) and lastly there shouldn't be a middle roll center but two independent roll centers front and rear and the variation on strut types should give another dimension has to own dynamic movement differentiates from the front to rear.

Also I think they should put more tire noises, tires make 9 distinct noises.

Quote from ajp71 :

There is a law against aftermarket seats in Australia? And weld in cages aren't permitted? And the cars in Race King's link definitely didn't look road worthy...



Any car that has a wing stuck on it before all previous work has been completed is badly prepared and sticking wings and bodykits on without thinking about the aerodynamic effects is doubly silly. I bet none of those cars have had any kind of serious analysis that has come to the conclusion they need to use considerably larger side skirts, air dams and rear wings than equivalent race cars.



Read my post.

Your refering to real time attack cars and im refering to street legal cars, xrt doesnt have diffusers etc, thats all in reference.

Also having a wing, canards bodykit is better than having nothing, a real time attack car would be completly illegal to drive on the street, for starters it wont have a cat converter and the exhaust will be over 90bc, half cage is street legal but full cage is completely illegal even if its engineered, lsd's are another defect, acrylic windows are illegal, any sort of chassis modification are illegal, ride height too low is illegal, emmissions needs to be test which will most likely fail, canards and splitters are illegal.
Fiberglass or any over poly or carbon body fabrications are illegal, etc.
In superlap yes some cars should not be on the street but their nothing like a full prep racing car, I was not even talking about this lol

You think people can do these things for a living and hire some f1 driver so your happy. All I can say is at least im doing what I like unlike some. No one cares what you think suspension settings should be or what is required, just because it might work you it doesn't mean it will work for others.

Quote from Bob Smith :

As I suspected - that spreadsheet is thorough ancient, so unless you've updated it yourself with the values for the current XRT in 0.5Z, it is incorrect. VHPA is much more up to date, I suggest you give that a try. Link in sig.


It's something either Colcob or I came across back in the day, and I think only really applies to road cars. I wrote it in my LFS setup guide but it won't be in the revised version (whenever I get the time to get on with that).

I see, will do

Quote from Bob Smith :

I'm curious, are you using Colcob's old suspension analyser spreadsheet?

LFS GT suspension analyserV2-2.xls

Quote from Bob Smith :

Erm, yes it does? Or are you referring to the installation angle of the spring?

My post was not clear, adjustable castor rods such as these:-

http://www.uniqueautosports.co ... ists/kts/ktscastorrod.jpg

Quote from ajp71 :

Recommended base settings from Bob's setup guide. Using the values from your real car is silly, it has a different wheel base, track, unsprung and sprung mass, weight distribution and different tyres to name a few..

I’m aware of that "so the car will behave differently from a video game", wheelbase, weight and distribution are very similar, I don't know about roll center, track and unspring mass. Either way I like my settings and enjoy watching my replays because it looks real.
By the way this is me.
http://s74.photobucket.com/alb ... &current=_AJN6442.jpg

Quote from ajp71 :

My point exactly, why does this thing (driven by some touring car driver sufficiently insignificant in a series which isn't exactly the pinacle of motorsport for you to not bother mentioning who he is) have a wing, stupidly big front air dam, huge power bulges on the bonnet and a standard interior? Long before the bodywork gets touched the car should be fully stripped and have a full weld in cage to suspension and diff mounts, a properly prepared race car would leave that thing standing.

The drivers name is John Boston and its not his car, this event is different to a normal time attack because you have to race with road registered cars and as you are aware depending on country people are limited to what they are allowed to do to their cars.
So you dont have a clue what your saying after comments like "badly prepared, overpowered understeery 4WD cars with silly bodykits and drivers ranging from second rate to comically bad is going to tell you absolutley nothing about what a good driver can do in a well setup low powered RWD car with no downforce."
The only thing second rate here are your comments, maybe you should learn to ask question instead of assumptions and you still didn't answer my question, were does this .15Hz minimum rule came from?
I like to understand things rather than reading rules like a parrot.

Quote from ajp71 :

Your setup isn't 'perfect', the rear spring frequency is too low, it should only be about 0.15hz lower than the front otherwise you'll get an understeery car and you probably want a slightly higher front frequency. The car is under damped at the rear as well.



Sliding is faster, especially in cars which don't rely on aerodynamic downforce so aren't adversely affected by yaw. All cars produce peaks in grip at a certain tyre slip angle, this can be over 10 degrees for road tyres. After passing the peak angle the drop off in grip is very slight so even pretty lurid slides can be not a lot slower round low speed corners (where adverse aerodynamic and rolling resistance issues from going sideways are less important) and a lot quicker if otherwise only one end of the car would be near its peak slip angle and therefore producing lots of grip.

Don't use time attack series in any kind of serious discussion about circuit racing, badly prepared, overpowered understeery 4WD cars with silly bodykits and drivers ranging from second rate to comically bad is going to tell you absolutley nothing about what a good driver can do in a well setup low powered RWD car with no downforce.

Starting from the top.

According to LFS analyser my rebound damping is optimal, bump at 75% both front and rear. Front 2.36Hz and rear 2.03Hz. Were does this .15Hz minimum rule came from.
It would be under damped if the rear spring rate was higher.
These settings are based on my real car (except for sway bar settings), the rear does incorporate anti-squat so the car will behave differently from a video game, also the game does not take caster into account, springs are F7kg/mm R5kg/mm with re-valved bilsteins.

The way that car was sliding looked to be beyond its slip limit and as Scatter posted there is a debate going on about patch Z. I hope in the following patch they relay more on tire physics and implement gearbox damage so shifting fast will cause clutch and gearbox damage while the synchros slow down to engage.

From your post you dont have a clue what time attack is here, overpowered cars with bodykits????? Were are you getting your information from.

http://www.natsoft.com.au/cgi- ... ts.cgi?05/07/2008.ORAN.SL
The guy with the s14 runs a standard turbo. The S200 driver is in V8 supercars. Heres a pic.

http://i74.photobucket.com/alb ... erlap%20July/_AJN6193.jpg

^^ Im aware that my laps are not great, I havent been playing for almost a year but ill keep those tips in mind, the suspension set up is perfect for the tire being use, shock settings suit the spring rate.

Scatter's post is what I think is occuring.

Quote from MAGGOT :

In many cases a powerslide is a quicker way through a corner, you should know this. That's why it's done in rallying - including tarmac rally. The flip side is increased wear and heat on the tires. Sliding works for a hot lap because of how short it is. You wouldn't do that in a race, though, or you'd lose your tires.

I haven't watched any of the WR replays, nor do I care to, and it may be quite possible that the slide angle is not conducive to faster lap times IRL, and there is an irregularity in the tire physics modeling. Notwithstanding, sliding does not automatically equal slower. You should know this, being a racer and all...

I own a s15 and have done drift, targa and circuit days and no powerslides is not a faster way through a corner. You follow super lap(time attack japan)? Do you see anyone drifting?

There are some incorrect information in your post its not funny, you comparing rallying to circuit? lol

Quote from Lateralus :

What is this, one of these "I've done it and you haven't therefore I'm right and you're wrong" threads? Spare us, please.

It doesn't look real because this is a game played on a wheel clamped to a desk on a flat monitor. Real racing is, well, real.

lol

^^^ Ever raced a real car, you tell me.

Either way it doesn't look real

With the XRT on Blackwood track I was strugling to get into the 28's, eventually with some gearing tweaking and swearing a finaly got into the low 28's, saved the reply and in lfs world when uploading I noticed some people did 23's with steering and pedals???

View the reply, that car was carrying a lot of speed while oversteering, being a person that does real circuit racing these laps look unrealistic, for me to get into the 23's I would have to be more the drift king than the stig. Including drive train damage element into this game should fix this

I am aware that trial braking can shave off seconds but this is ridiculous, low 26's max.

Discuss

Quote from IlGuercio :

Oh come on.You know that wankel is banned from lemans right?And guess why?Because it gives an amazing power to weigh and size ratio just on the engine itself.Wankel engine deserves more development.We are talking about an engine that only mazda knows and makes.Isnt the lightness and the small size an advantage?Lower center of gravity,less mass to move around.
And it may perform like an engine larger twice as much,but in fact it isnt,this is the best thing about it.

Technically it was banned due to not beinga way of measuring the air intake into the engine.

Quote from Bob Smith :

There are way more than that missing, although I don't think any of the cars in game atm would suit a solid axle.

Btw LFS does have trailing arm on a few of the road cars (even though it is still modelled as sliding pillar for now).

I don't see what this has to do with the thread title though?

this http://www.autospectator.com/cars/files/images/red-front.jpg
and this http://www.pro-imports.ie/images/ae86-140.jpg

Quote from Bob Smith :

There are way more than that missing, although I don't think any of the cars in game atm would suit a solid axle.

Btw LFS does have trailing arm on a few of the road cars (even though it is still modelled as sliding pillar for now).

I don't see what this has to do with the thread title though?

???? which ones?

Quote from george_tsiros :

are there official, well-known races, with cars that use these kinds of suspension?

live axle? do i smell something burning?:bananadea

BMW m3 nissan 200sx etc macpherson front multi link rear.

2005 mustang macphersons front live axle rear.

Im not much of a arcade racer fan and I do like this game but I noticed the only suspension types this game has is a mix and match double wishbone and macpherson struts.

To the developers: Multi- link, live axle and trailing arm.
These are forms of suspension used to this day, it would be good if in future new cars are added with these types of suspension.

Quote from henrico-20- :

i do race to and somtimes with cars. last wednesday i did the dunlop drivers cup here in the netherlands. it was a lot of fun.

i can say that LFS has a lot from reality understeer/oversteer/ overtaking and the way how to stop understeer/oversteer. thats why this is the only game/sim that i play for 3 years on and on. also the feeling of speed is verry good. i don't know if you guys had the same thing: playing LFS the whole day and in the evening you went out with yr real car and then cutting the corners to the max and going on the highway and thinking, Man this is going slow! :P

there are only a few complants about LFS.. well not realy complaints but it can be better and that is the tires. with some cars they just went to red hot in a few laps, also with a good set. and i hope there will be slicks for the UF1, XFG,XRG,RB4,FXO,XRT,RAC,FZ5,LX4/6 to. but thats off topic right now

@scawen: wich wheel do you use for simracing?

Same here, no other sim comes close.

I have been a long user of this game and love it, but there are few things that could be improved:-

Adjusting the ride height on the set up screem shows and implements the roll center/ anti-(or pro) dive characteristics.

At certain speed data such as roll centres, weight transfer (suspended, non-suspended, geometric and elastic ), motion ratios and aerodynamic coefficients.

Last edited by bubbles, Fri 20 Jun 2008, 21:15.

Quote from Gabkicks :

LOL, i was just talking to a guy who's on the waiting list for a GTR... i wonder if he knows this.

lol the power restrictions are only for Japan. In regards to modifications, you wouldnt want to modify the car anyways as warranty will become void, the same with every other manucfacturer.
But if you really want to modify the car, there are ways around, but this should done after warranty or you just dont care and lastly a track only r35 gtr.

Notice that at 8 psi its pretty fast like its running on c16 or is it just me.

Just a idea, a bigger turbo on the xrt with lag would require a different driving style, something like gt3582r on a 2ltr capable of 315 rwk on full boost after 5,000 rpm. Depending on the track the car can be slower or faster.

Quote from Bob Smith :

The idea has its merits but its downsides too.

O/T:

Grammatical point: drifting is another form of motorsport, unrelated to racing.

So is drag racing. Your point being?

But I can set the xrt to drift though I wouldnt mind 600hp xrt+

Nos? Too much Vin Diesel dont you think lol

Now that we have clutch damage, i think its only fare to re-start lap records as everyone else is having an unfair disadvantage.

Can't we all just get along.

All I will say is this, people that opt to drift using this game are well aware that nothing comes close to the way the car reacts when oversteering, point being its better than any other game.

Drifting is not "racing", sure if we argue something in relation to recovering from oversteer, but not drifting.


But why can't we have it both ways?

Does that mean that most fast lap times are done by cheaters?

Recently, i have been more and more violent with the shifter, eventually to the point that I could no longer select 1,2,5,6,r.

The problem was not has bad as it seem, with a closer inspection there is a plastic washer (black washer, grommet looking thing) that came loose, which by shifting side to side would jam. Plastic washer into the bin, problem solved