I wonder if a bit of suspension stiction would help cars on softer springs and dampers feel planted.

I think it has to do with angular inertia. LFS cars have too much. It's like driving on ice--for an average-wheelbase car, the front wheels alone can't muster enough rotation, so pushing all 4 wheels to a higher slip angle is necessary to even activate the rears in a steady corner.. which increases the threat of oversteer.. and if the cars do oversteer, more grip is spent canceling the rotation.

Why would they have too much inertia? If the box method was used.. cars aren't equal density from bumper to bumper, especially MR, and some FR cars. FF cars like the XF GTI, would probably be fairly accurate with standard box inertia values, at least in yaw and pitch.

Last edited by mosquitohater93, Mon 16 Dec 2019, 01:18.

I hope the new tire model has more forgiving heat simulation, and is drift-friendly.

This is the video OP shared if anyone missed it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0TlRkNWheQ

You're right, LFS temp simulation is inaccurate. Videos like this are rare and valuable resources for small development teams.

Last edited by mosquitohater93, Wed 25 Sep 2019, 17:16.

I've played it on a Core 2 Duo laptop at 1.83ghz, integrated graphics, 25-35 fps with a full server at ~800p.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

And how exactly is the above not positive ?????

I try to keep my criticism on point and focused. And, as I've been waiting for this physics update for 'a little while' I'm keen to see it released, and hopefully, allow me to actually race this sim on line again.

Just making it look pretty is not going to achieve that.

I am also looking forwards to new tires. They screenshots look fantastic, plenty modern to attract new players, if the new tires deliver the raw feeling of the current tires with better drivability.

I think iRacing FFB is more fake than Assetto FFB. It's calculated from all 4 wheels at once. That's why it feels like it's "at" the center of gravity.

Quote from Flotch :

no => in fact there is too much grip already for the tires.
This is one of the factor leading to heat up too much the tires because they accept too much load before sliding. Same that is leading aswell to have lots of difficulties to drive "quickly" without a locked differential : outside is having so much grip that the inside is leaving the ground ^^
Then there is of course the fact that tires are cooling down too slowly ...
Please Scawen, fix this

By more grip, I mean, more grip when hot.
I think the tires gain/lose too much grip from load changes.

The XRG can pull nearly 1.00g lateral sustained, with "normal" tires, front tire width of ~180mm. "Eco" tires good for 0.9g or less would be better for beginners, casual hotlapping, "my real car" experience, and drifting.

The fact the XRG/XRT have staggered tires, unheard of for production or race cars of their caliber, tells me they knew something wasn't right when they configured them.

Quote from MicroSpecV :

...going fast now is down to basically changing your driving style to something that just isn't realistic...I like to drive my car like normal...

Yeah. :/

Quote from pärtan :

You can get a lap in on most autocross layouts before the tires start to melt. And at that point you can do a bit of 3rd gear and then start over. No one is forcing you do take 3+ laps on the same set.

Yes, but the front tires stay cold, limiting grip and response. Before they are warm, at least in the XRT, the rears have given up.

LiveForSpeed's hybrid physical/sampled tires were/are ahead of their time. Their strengths are purity and well-roundedness, not realism. Like every sport that has crossed the world, driving is fun. If LFS can deliver that spirit with it's own flavor of intuitive depth hand-in-hand, I hope it can not help but be recognized.

LFS has not been dethroned as the "potentially" best drifting sim in over a decade. Unrealistic tire heat mechanics are still it's Achilles heel.

Anyone who's drifted an underpowered car knows, if you're not pinned, there's a harder entry, a cleaner line, a better-placed exit to find. The most fun to have in drifting is unleashing all available energy into the equation and channeling it with precision. Currently in LFS, after a handful of short AU1 laps, the fight for angle turns inside out. "Drifting" becomes a precarious balancing act around the front wheels, with constant threat of a snap spin, not unlike a FWD with food trays under the rears. It's not exciting. Please give us more grip.

Assetto FFB is baked. It's based on "tire aligning moment" which has no meaningful centering effect--only mechanical trail can do that. LFS FFB is based on mechanical trail (like it should be). It reacts to lateral deflection at the tire, but the tire deflection itself is not driving the FFB. I noticed this mostly after using LFS 0.6H, with NewTweakOrder, and different wheel widths/aspect ratios. Thinner tires and slightly wider wheels sharpen steering response considerably, making soft suspension setups more manageable.

iRacing, AFAIK, also uses mechanical trail for it's FFB. I haven't played it so I don't know if you can feel the tire deforming.

The option is there.. keep looking through the menus. I think it's under View/views.

http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets19.html
Ignore the pages where he recommends 2.2F/2.5R NF.. I think he's right about dampers though.

Last edited by mosquitohater93, Sat 23 Feb 2019, 20:07.

Quote from pako_customize :

PHYSICS ..ill wait for PHYSICS update ..the reason i play this simulator

Yup. New skin, same tired bones.

Please, if you would try digressive dampers in a test build I think you would learn more about your tires, both old and new, and it would be for the best.

Last edited by mosquitohater93, Tue 11 Dec 2018, 18:47.

LFS has always had the most honest, natural, cohesive physics of any game/sim! They are undeniably it's strongest suit.

I will welcome improved graphics. I will more readily welcome further refined tire physics/FFB.

P.S. I'd rather see higher-poly versions of the current cars before new shadows or track improvements. That's the only superficial complaint I could make, except the 100hz physics that causes stuttering on 60hz monitors. I have a monitor that will underclock to 50hz currently, making it a non-issue, for me.

I use 0.6H and NTO

I think you missed a curve on the outside edge..

All of the cars could use some more polys. Especially the wheel wells.

Provided the knee speed is matched to each car (maybe link it to springs; stiffer springs=less deflection so the knee should be lower?), a single high-speed compression digression ratio slider would about do the trick. Rebound can stay linear.

I appreciate your support bro..

After reading about dampers and studying damper dyno sheets, and years of playing LFS, I realize where the XRT (and others) has/have let me down. The dampers are too soft to dampen driver inputs, or too stiff to absorb bumps. A well-tuned damper curve gives good damping at low shaft velocities, typically caused by driver inputs or gradual inclination changes. The curve tapers to a much shallower increase of n/s/mm, usually around 10 to 30 mm/s, giving stiffness equivalent to a much lower setting on a linear damper during for high shaft velocites, which are seen when running over curbs, abrupt surface inperfections, etc.

Offroaders are familiar with them as bypass dampers (in extreme applications, multi-bypass;position-dependent, staged circuits). They are common in mountain bike dampers, seen with dual compression adjustments. This is not a gimmick; I have a Manitou Mattoc fork with an adjustable bypass on top of the compression knob. To say the difference over the Rockshox forks I've had before is night-and-day would be an understatement.

...

Scawen? Are LFS dampers linear?


Do I need to buy LFS again with a less abrasive name for anyone to take me seriously?

Last edited by mosquitohater93, Sun 22 Jul 2018, 17:47.

CarX has the most complete assist I've ever seen. Definitely would be OP in LFS.

Gran Turismo 5, I liked how they handled controller inputs.

I'm fairly certain the dampers in LFS are linear. If not, shame on me. If so, they should be digressive... And I understand the tyre physics have been "in progress" for almost a decade.. I also realize how important good dampers are to appreciating a good set of tyres.. and it would amplify the possibilities of dialed-in cars and competitive setups.. as well as fast street setups, stiff, comfortable setups good for cruising, which is a large portion of the current persistent userbase.. What do you think?

Edit: spelling

Last edited by mosquitohater93, Sun 22 Jul 2018, 17:45.

It would be great to have greater control over the curve.