There's a new online trend about exposing cheaters on fps games (not only but mainly).

I have never been a hardcore player to have encountered cheaters in LFS (if there are few cheaters, i don't play enough races with different people. Statistics), but I remember the old days (2010) when you could change the cars' hp by a few % and get the edge over your competitor.

Nowadays, I think LFS is pretty much free of cheats, I have never assumed someone faster than me is using cheats, what are your thoughts? Maybe I am just assuming this since I mostly race the same 15 or 20 guys.
Is LFS hard to cheat on, or did we simply become a small community of (despite some race punts) trustworthy drivers?

Obviously, I am speaking about using the legit and latest version of LFS for online play.

The classic cheats (speedhacks, ghosting etc.) were so easy to detect in LFS such that it was enough of a deterrent in most cases. I think you're right that the current community is built on trust, and with it being so tightly knit, I think that helps.

There have been cases in the not so distant past where people have been using cheats in high profile events, but once you cheat and are caught, your name is tainted and it takes a long time for you to be accepted or trusted again: either a) you work hard to build your reputation back up, or b) the people who knew you were a cheater move on.

If LFS' player base were to grow again, we might see more people cheating, but I think we're in a comfortable place with this issue at the moment that it isn't really something we see discussed anymore.

as mbutcher writes, it is quite easy to spot most cheating hacks, anything giving above 0.5% more torque, grip, aero etc is directly spotable, and below those values the benefits are discutable, unless maybe if it makes sense for a top driver to get 0.01% advantage on others, wich i dont believe, because if not detectable on the spot, the replay will speak.
Also since version 0.7, there is no more dedi server available, and uncommon hacks are now impossible or quite harder to get working. That said, there are still some holes that may worth a fix, specially in endurance racing, i wont reveal them here obviously, but i can give detailed infos to trusty people if needed.

Only cheat i can think of that is being used is macro button clutch and throttle blip...and even those are usually used by slower people.

Other than that, LFS is suprisingly clean...or atleast it feels that way.

Only cheat that i can think of is if you have h-pattern car and you can downshift without useing clutch just revmaching the engine by throttle blip and change gear. In real life it´s not possible, but in lfs it is and that´s is so frustrating, because people cheat races like that.

It is very possible to upshift or downshift without clutch in a real car. I used to drive like this a lot, and still do cause am lazy. The thing is : its not fuel efficient, and slower than using clutch on a normal (slow to rev up/down) engine.

I like to see that you downshift 3 gear 7000rpm to 2 gear up to 8500rpm and the shift must instant like in the game the cheaters do 😂 Lets see how many shifts you can do IRL normal manual syncronized gearbox whitout useing clutch 😅

Quote from tanehau-srt :

just revmaching the engine by throttle blip and change gear. In real life it´s not possible

that is one thing

Quote from tanehau-srt :

I like to see that you downshift 3 gear 7000rpm to 2 gear up to 8500rpm and the shift must instant like in the game the cheaters do

that is not the same thing

I also wrote that not using clutch is "slower than using clutch on a normal (slow to rev up/down) engine."

Next time maybe put your ego to sleeping mode when u answer ? right now u look like a troll.

Quote from NumberTwo :

Only cheat i can think of that is being used is macro button clutch and throttle blip...and even those are usually used by slower people.

Other than that, LFS is suprisingly clean...or atleast it feels that way.

I don't think this as a cheat in the way we normally think of cheats in games/sims. This is more like an exploit of controls that the sim allows, there is nothing interfering with LFS. I think that the ability to use a button clutch should be removed, but calling something that has purposefully been put in the game a cheat is not correct.

I have used a macro tool in iRacing because it was impossible to be competitive in the old mx5 without it, but you can still be competitive in LFS without a button clutch macro.

Quote :

I also wrote that not using clutch is "slower than using clutch on a normal (slow to rev up/down) engine."

Next time maybe put your ego to sleeping mode when u answer ? right now u look like a troll.

Sorry, miss reading you. My english understanding isnt that good. If you had said that in real life it's slower up/downshift without clucth and yes you did, but i didint read it like that so maybe then i would be readed correctly ☺️

The thing still is that it's easyer and faster to do it without clutch in lfs than useing clutch and that is maybe not cheating but also thats not realistic.

Quote from tanehau-srt :

I like to see that you downshift 3 gear 7000rpm to 2 gear up to 8500rpm and the shift must instant like in the game the cheaters do 😂 Lets see how many shifts you can do IRL normal manual syncronized gearbox whitout useing clutch 😅

Exploiting =/= cheating. It's already a small disadvantage to be running with a H-shifter since the majority of the time you're driving one handed with other hand on the shifter and propably 0.5% of the LFS players use it. Clutchless upshifting is and always will be slower because you cant make the revs run down any faster than what the engine will allow unless you're in gear and braking. In sequential boxes it is very possible to upshift without clutch faster in real life, and it is widely used by the majority of professional racing drivers. Not to mention, LFS doesn't have any sequential gearbox type that would require using clutch for upshifts so this is really not any issue.
Only clutchless downshifting provides a small advantage over the balance of the car getting rid of possible engine braking or getting to an optimal RPM on lower gear faster. However it is a very marginal advantage, as the time spent on neutral is still just about the same as if you would kick the clutch in whilst on throttle. I would also add in a bit of whataboutism on this subject, the other sims like Assetto for example have this problem as well, it's just as easy to downshift without clutch and without grinding the gears even if the damage is set to full as it is here.

Cheating, at least in my opinion is when you manipulate the game or controls with the help of an external software. Most obvious ones are mentioned here already. Unlike in F1 2022 for example () altering the grip or power levels of the car or the surfaces of the track are very visible as the car will hop around with LFS netcode expecting them to lose grip and understeer, or during acceleration will make the car jump always when the next update packet is "read". It doesn't even look similar to having high ping, so if you know what you're looking for you will see it if someone cheats. I've attached a MPR as a very good example of track surface manipulation i found on this forum but for some reason the post was deleted. (I'll let you guys guess which one of the cars is cheating )

The more discreet cheating methods in my opinion would be the usage of clutch/throttle blip/whatever you can think of macros which can make the slightly more difficult manoveurs such as heel & toe extremely simplified. Using the button clutch binded through the game with button control rate set to max isn't an exploit as it is an inbuilt function in the game itself, but there are ways to emulate axis on a button press with 3rd party software which in return will make blipping the throttle, pushing the clutch and shifting possible with just one click of said button. I'm sure there are people with different opinion to mine that if it's allowed it's not a cheat but to me it's an unfair advantage over people who don't want to use any external software just in order to keep up. I would also say raising awareness is better on the subject rather than being silent about it, as long as you don't tell how it works but mentioning that it's possible.

Simplest option would be to just force everyone to run on auto clutch or some other idea but that would be completely ridiculous to anyone who wishes to race with realistic peripherals.

On another offtopic note, maybe LFS could have a sequential gearbox type that has throttle blip on downshifts. Almost all of the modern race cars and a few luxury road cars have this function automated so it'd be a good addition to LFS, especially some of the mods imitating real life GT cars would be more realistic this way as well.

Quote from nikopdr :

On another offtopic note, maybe LFS could have a sequential gearbox type that has throttle blip on downshifts.

As a side note - if the car in question has "engine brake reduction" option and it is set to a high number, it will act as a throttle blip for you on downshifts

Quote from Sobis :

As a side note - if the car in question has "engine brake reduction" option and it is set to a high number, it will act as a throttle blip for you on downshifts

This keeps the throttle "hanging", which is not really a proper blip and is just as the name says, to remove the engine braking. I also forgot that there is the paddle shift option that actually blips the throttle in downshifts

nikopdr is haxor cheating everyrace have proof

Quote from k_badam :

I don't think this as a cheat in the way we normally think of cheats in games/sims. This is more like an exploit of controls that the sim allows, there is nothing interfering with LFS. I think that the ability to use a button clutch should be removed, but calling something that has purposefully been put in the game a cheat is not correct.

I have used a macro tool in iRacing because it was impossible to be competitive in the old mx5 without it, but you can still be competitive in LFS without a button clutch macro.

My opinion is that just using button clutch is ok...it makes upshifts faster but braking and downshift is PITA. But you're still in confines of the game.

Where i draw the line is when you use external programs to automate downshift sequence. That is in my opinion cheating. A script does something that a driver should do.

https://mozaracing.com/product/moza-hgp-shifter

Then we got a moza shifter that will autoblip on downshifts.

Around 2012 in Demo BL2 (rally), i discovered an exploit where i overwrote the dirt road's file with the tarmac's for better grip.
https://prnt.sc/tCZ1gLkdiRAH
(FBM time)
It worked online too but of course i got banned

Quote from k_badam :

I don't think this as a cheat in the way we normally think of cheats in games/sims. This is more like an exploit of controls that the sim allows, there is nothing interfering with LFS. I think that the ability to use a button clutch should be removed, but calling something that has purposefully been put in the game a cheat is not correct.

I have used a macro tool in iRacing because it was impossible to be competitive in the old mx5 without it, but you can still be competitive in LFS without a button clutch macro.

I use the macro tool in iRacing ! This is a great thing without which it is difficult to achieve a good result!

Do you wanna share your member ID and a video of you using it? Just curious how it works...

Quote from gu3st :

https://mozaracing.com/product/moza-hgp-shifter

Then we got a moza shifter that will autoblip on downshifts.

Yes but it wont engage clutch on gear change?

What is the cheat (the trick, the setting, the exploitation of the game's faults, it's the same) that allows you to upshift on an H box without decelerating? As seen on WR replay's ?

I specify that I'm not interested in learning how to do it, it's just for my general knowledge.
Thanks

care to provide some examples?

Quote from johneysvk :

care to provide some examples?

Take an original car with an H-gearbox (and nothing else). For example, the FZR.
Display the records with a steering wheel and without an auto clutch. In order not to waste time, watch the replays of the world records on short tracks (SO classic, RO handling etc.)
You will hear that the accelerator pedal remains fully pressed when changing up gears. If you display the pedals, you will see it.
I thought it was a game glitch (maybe that's it?) so I tried to do it and couldn't. Not the same sound. Not the same efficiency.
This is the reason for my question. What's the trick?

Quote from Avraham Vandezwin :

Take an original car with an H-gearbox (and nothing else). For example, the FZR.
Display the records with a steering wheel and without an auto clutch. In order not to waste time, watch the replays of the world records on short tracks (SO classic, RO handling etc.)
You will hear that the accelerator pedal remains fully pressed when changing up gears. If you display the pedals, you will see it.
I thought it was a game glitch (maybe that's it?) so I tried to do it and couldn't. Not the same sound. Not the same efficiency.
This is the reason for my question. What's the trick?

Macro that presses the clutch pedal faster than lightning.

E: Ok those laps you mentioned specificly just use button clutch at 10.00 button control rate, not quite as fast as macro but faster than autoclutch and most people who kick the clutch.

Quote from fatalunfair :

Macro that presses the clutch pedal faster than lightning.

E: Ok those laps you mentioned specificly just use button clutch at 10.00 button control rate, not quite as fast as macro but faster than autoclutch and most people who kick the clutch.

THANK YOU . I understand now (I drive with the clutch pedal with basic G25/G27 hardware).

Am I to understand that this is some kind of...cheating? Or not ?

Edit: clarification
I don't mention some laps specifically. I often drive the FZR. So I looked at some of the FZR WRs. The shorter tracks, but others too. I noticed that the accelerator pedal was released when decelerating and not when upshifting. I haven't checked all of the WRs but I imagine everyone does the same thing with all cars.It's just weird.