Hi, i tried to workout a solution for my topic "Carsound, and how to improve them".

Thats a preview video on YouTube...

Preview 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrHFlb5hFYw
Preview 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY8kPYZE1xE

First i was experimenting with 32band-EQ and Compressor to get a real muffler sound effect from the engine sound. In that case the dev just need to copy the synthetic engine (without turbo sounds) and add the 32band EQ and compressor maybe add a very lil gatedreverb and u will get this sound ... (see attachment muffler_raceabout) and set that soundsource to the muffler of the carshape, so you can listen in cockpit front engine and if u turn your head to back u listen deep muffler...

Surely u wont listen the turbo whistle in the muffler, but it wasnt possible so far to use the pure clean engine sound.

I also experimented with reverb and filters to have that "car far away coming" thingy in almost real sound. Sounds quite cool now, ill work bit more on it and upload next days maybe u will see it in final video...

here u can see an example EQ to make engine sound like muffler-like


Again i wanna mention this all can be done by the devs if they want

Apart from, the already mentioned, too loud music volume to actually critique the result of what you're describing above:

You've made a way to take the engine sound layer (by a directx hijack) and pass it realtime through these filters, which would be impressive, or did you just take the final mixdown of the sound and post-process it with some audio editing software just to make a video? (judging from the other sounds, like the tyresqueal sound, I'd wager the second...?)

Quote from xaotik :

Apart from, the already mentioned, too loud music volume to actually critique the result of what you're describing above:

You've made a way to take the engine sound layer (by a directx hijack) and pass it realtime through these filters, which would be impressive, or did you just take the final mixdown of the sound and post-process it with some audio editing software just to make a video? (judging from the other sounds, like the tyresqueal sound, I'd wager the second...?)

version3. as u can see i used the wheelcam for the muffler sound so i did a Video Line 1 for Cockpit and Video Line 2 for wheelcam. The VideoLine1 (cockpit) is the normal lfs output sound. The VideoLine2 (wheelcam/muffler) is also the normal output sound just tweaked with an eq and a compressor so easy effects the devs could also use ingame for muffler.
I dont think a direct-x hack would help me in any way couz this is not planned as a mod, it is just a workout how it could sound ingame, if the devs use some more effects to create better sounds.

I want sounds like this. Good video, but the music ruins trying to listen to the car

Aside from the tyre screech, which doesnt sound quite right, and the fact that I've never heard the RA; it actually sounds quite good Nice work

duh, id love to know how to edit the sound...i want to have a more aggressive sound :auto:
the muffler is quite nice, but the actual engine sound is the same or (cockpit view)?

Well done. Now do a draft of the necessary steps to include this in LFS and lock Scawen in his basement.
In other words: LFS desperately needs sound improvements like this.
By 'this' I mean post-processing of LFS's sound-sources to achieve a quickly and at the same time well done sound effect that gives good sound and still contains all the information it originally had.

Vain

Quote from MoonForce :

I dont think a direct-x hack would help me in any way couz this is not planned as a mod, it is just a workout how it could sound ingame, if the devs use some more effects to create better sounds.

Well you basically described the second method I mentioned: you worked with the games' mixdown. Sorry, for a minute I thought (hoped!) it was a realtime thing.

Fairly good result but I don't think it would really help Scawen much to tell him "hey, all you need to do is slap a reverb and pass it through an LP filter".

I'm sure he has several ideas on how he'd want the engines, drivetrains and mufflers to be properly simulated, starting from the way they work to the sound they make. And yes, using post-processing is definetely a way to achieve it, but knowing this and accurately doing it in real-time (without ending up with nausea-inducing harmonics in the process) are two different things.

So the question remains was this done in real time or was it done in Post-Preduction? If was was done in real time then it coudl very well be a comunity mod project begging to be done. Becky added in backfires and a pit radio, I do not see why this coudl not also be accomplished.

To be honest it sounds like the nKPro sound system but with more work applied to the final sound. Deffinatly an improvment over the current state.

How diffacult woudl it be to to read engine RPM and Throtle position to generate a sound like the one in the video and then feed it back inplace of the original to the sound system?

@Gimpster: Read the thread.

Vain

Quote from Gimpster :

So the question remains was this done in real time or was it done in Post-Preduction?

As stated above, post-production unfortunately.

Quote :

How diffacult woudl it be to to read engine RPM and Throtle position to generate a sound like the one in the video and then feed it back inplace of the original to the sound system?

Outgauge wouldn't provide the resolution required sadly, there would be lag. The best method, imho, is the audio equivelant of what Kegetys did with the ghostcar app. Hijack directX and find a way to divert the engine's audio layer through an external app which would apply the effects, render and return to output. IIRC, directx provides classes for rudimentary reverb and lp effects, which can be hardware accelerated as well.

Quote from xaotik :

And yes, using post-processing is definetely a way to achieve it, but knowing this and accurately doing it in real-time (without ending up with nausea-inducing harmonics in the process) are two different things.

You know harmonics are there in real life too, just the other day I noticed this when driving my car. There was even a rythimic base pulsing in my exhaust/intake note that suprised me. A very low slow rythmic pulsing. Almost hypnotic.

Quote from xaotik :

Outgauge wouldn't provide the resolution required sadly, there would be lag. The best method, imho, is the audio equivelant of what Kegetys did with the ghostcar app. Hijack directX and find a way to divert the engine's audio layer through an external app which would apply the effects, render and return to output.

Then I have to say:
Kegetys, we need your magic, Please.

Quote from Gimpster :

You know harmonics are there in real life too, just the other day I noticed this when driving my car. There was even a rythimic base pulsing in my exhaust/intake note that suprised me. A very low slow rythmic pulsing. Almost hypnotic.

a smart isnt a car

Quote from Gimpster :

You know harmonics are there in real life too, just the other day I noticed this when driving my car. There was even a rythimic base pulsing in my exhaust/intake note that suprised me. A very low slow rythmic pulsing. Almost hypnotic.

Ofcourse there are, "tuning" (as in sound tuning) of commercial passenger cars is an important phase of car design/production nowadays. There are a few programs out there that do some very low-level simulating of what a car will sound like inside (without the audio results - most is just frequency graphs, etc). Ask tristancliffe, he's worked with one AFAIK.

Thing is that having the wrong frequencies (overtones) generated for a given "base" sound (not "bass" - but base), the fundamental frequency that is, for too long can cause some serious disorientation and discomfort.

So this could be easily done for all cars? And I guess it wouldn't break the compatibility between current version, so...

Sounds good. Well Done.

Off-topic - Is your rubber Good Year Eagle F1's? If so...How?

Quote from xaotik :

As stated above, post-production unfortunately.



Outgauge wouldn't provide the resolution required sadly, there would be lag. The best method, imho, is the audio equivelant of what Kegetys did with the ghostcar app. Hijack directX and find a way to divert the engine's audio layer through an external app which would apply the effects, render and return to output. IIRC, directx provides classes for rudimentary reverb and lp effects, which can be hardware accelerated as well.

FMOD (instead of DirectSound) has DSP filters that I think can probably do all this sort of thing in real time, so it might be possible.

Quote from jtw62074 :

FMOD (instead of DirectSound) has DSP filters that I think can probably do all this sort of thing in real time, so it might be possible.

Yeah, it's got pretty decent reverb in it's built-in DSP collection from what I've heard in demos and some games that use it. OpenAL is another contender for such, not sure how bloated it is in comparison though, and it's structure does look kinda clunky.

sounds you me like you just lowerd the dB of the whole engine sound basically, but the thing is, with the RAC, the engine is in the rear, so.. it wouldn't sound like that, you would hear some muffler, but you would hear the engine for the most part

but the thing is, muffler sounds can sound totally different from the cars (ei: G35 or 350z or any sport car of the such) a G35 has a low tone engine which you can't really hear, but the exaust is just plain amazing sounding

i can only imagine that the muffler sounds should sound totally different from the engine sounds completely

2nd Preview Video is online....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY8kPYZE1xE

sounds pretty nice ... after all it doesnt take that much to model how a muffler sounds its basically just a low pass which is exactly what you did

trying to model car sounds is one of those projects ive never found the time to do ive been reading up on sound synth with filters a little already so maybe ill get around to it after all

Sounds much more better and metallic good work

Nice indeed. Keep it up

it still sounds very "tubular" not tubular as in vanilla ice for amazing.. but rather, it sounds like its going straight out the pipe, and has a very pipe like sound to it, still not very exhaust like imo

(maybe this will help explaining a little more; it sounds like the exhaust pipe ["tube"] is straight, and about a mile long is how it sounds)

We really need the sound improvment, something must be done before S2 hits the final. Just today I realised how much some people can be put off with the LFS sounds illepall For me it's not a problem, because I have lived with it already 2½ years so I've got used to it. But new people go like "eeeeew wtf amateurs!" Then I feel like an idiot telling them that "no, really it's a great sim, trust me." It should be made very high priority, and I hope (very optimistic) that the delay in test patches, and not having the V out yeat, would be because sound improvments. If you guys can do it why couldn't Lord Scawen. Im sorry to post this, most likely the wrong thread but it's also so obvious that everyone else must have realised it already...can't believe it took me so long...sorry had to get my stupidy out of my chest.