How about the possibility to race ghost cars ? I mean the best lap telemetry date could be saved in memory and triggered by going through the start line. The Car would appear as slightly see-through (or simply normal and not-collidable) Then I think racing on your own and training would become much more addictive then it already is.

Cheers
Stefan

Top Idea - I used to love this on an old PC Rally game whose name I forget...

well last time this came up; we had landed up finding out we would have licensing problems with atari... :worried:

Seriously?

Dude.

Quote from XCNuse :

well last time this came up; we had landed up finding out we would have licensing problems with atari... :worried:

omg, thats so insanely lame. Anyone know how much this would cost? Maybe the community could sponsor the devs? hehe

Hmmm thats terrible, after all this is a pretty trivial feature, does that mean every game that has such a ghost racing feature (ive seen a snowboard game do this and also some racing games) pays for adding this to the game?
Is this a patent ?

maybe one could combine it somehow with the replay feature so that it would be possible to steer a car in a replay ? I dont know if that would work in the architecture, but maybe that would be a possibility to have something similar without licencing problems ? (since it would be quite different)


Cheers
Stefan

Quote from krane :

"Ghost Car" patents of Atari, Nos. US 5,269,687, 5,354,202 and 5,577,913 all claim " a driver training system".

or here: http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=161596

if we could get a ghost car in LFS it would be excellent..

i know its abit arcady but if you think about it. you can see where you are making mistakes on the track etc

i think its a good idea

oh it is; its a great idea...we just need a way to get around the licenses legally lol

Surely if they wrote their own code and called it Phantom Car that would be OK? If not it's a stupid patent...

Quote from Seahorse :

Surely if they wrote their own code and called it Phantom Car that would be OK? If not it's a stupid patent...

You could also call it "Real Time Replay Overlay", then it would be innovative instead of plagiism

Would be cool though, especially, if you cold drive with any replay you recorded or downloded.

The problem is, since the ghost car racing is a patent it doesnt suffice to call it phantom car and leave it like that.
But the last post is making sense, i guess, i think it would be great if you could take over the car from a replay player and compete with the other cars replaying.
Taking over a car would also make it possible to train on hard parts in races, for example try and see if you can avoid a crash or overtake in special situations.

Maybe one of the developers could say something about the possibility of taking over a replay car within the lfs architecture

Stefan

Quote from Seahorse :

Surely if they wrote their own code and called it Phantom Car that would be OK? If not it's a stupid patent...

Unfortunately not. Patent's dont cover the implementation, or the name, but the idea. Which is why software patent's are bad for business.

Now I'm not upto speed on modern patent law, but the way I understand it is, that if LFS didnt get sold in a Country where it would violate these patent's, then it would be fine. Unfortunately in doing so, you cut out a large portion of your market. Namely the American states, etc.

Quote :

Maybe one of the developers could say something about the possibility of taking over a replay car within the lfs architecture

Whilst watching a replay, you can press escape and do a "test drive". Is this what you mean by taking over? Or would you prefer to do it mid-replay and continuing as if you were driving - effectively stopping the replay and starting your own continuing "session"?

Perpaps something like splitscreen mode (upper-the replay/ under-you drive)
I that a possibility??

AFAI Understand, all sims are breaking those patents, because one of them states the competition of simulated cars, even in an arcade game, Hmm...

Quote from Sk0rp :

Perpaps something like splitscreen mode (upper-the replay/ under-you drive)
I that a possibility??

No thanks. Split screen mode has never been effective in any game ever made. Either the graphics get squashed and skewed or you have little room to view what's happening up ahead.

I don't see the ghost car idea as adding any value to LFS either. You can already watch a replay to see your mistakes, you can also see the suspension and tyre loads by pressing F. The only real value I have ever gained from a ghost was that it can make you work harder if you have a target to chase, which may lead to a better lap time. I think the ghost car has it's appeal but that appeal does little to enhance a race sim that already addresses some of the aspects mentioned here.

to gunn :
I think racing against your ghost is great since races will always be enjoyable, since you are probable about the same speed than yourself and so you see how you improve over time by winning replays against yourself.

to the_angry_angel
>Whilst watching a replay, you can press escape and do a "test drive". Is this >what you mean by taking over? Or would you prefer to do it mid-replay and >continuing as if you were driving - effectively stopping the replay and starting >your own continuing "session"?

I mean the replay should continue as normal but the car that is currently at focus should start to get simulated which probably makes it impossible to crash into other cars, as it is a movie around you
the way i would do it program-wise would be , if a special key is pressed the actual speed and 3d position of the car currently at focus gets saved and instantiates a simulated car that starts out at exactly those position of the focused car in the replay, and you could continue to race against the field-


Stefan

I like it as it is, and like real life is. You drive, but want to beat the WR. So you use a replay analyser (or get hold of their telemetry in real life, using big sticks and swear words). This tells you what you need to do.

Having a ghost car would be just a bit too arcadey for me (see signature disclaimer), as beating times would be easier when following the ghost car.

I know you have to have SOME stuff make unrealistic, to make it fun/playable, but this is a step too far.

i would it enjoy it so much in hotlapping :`(((((
would really help to find misstakes...

sorry but im gonna have to go against you in this one tristan; think of it as a learning tool, you can see the mistakes you made/how you can improve a turn, brake, accel points or whatever

its not really an "arcady" thing, its a learning tool designed to show where you made mistakes

and as you said about replay analyser.. that doesnt show you mistakes or improvements.. it only shows you what and how fast you did something.. plus its a top down view which.. can be deceptive very easily

I just posted in the "My Little Suggestions"-Thread that the fastet lap in hotlapping should be saved automatically.

If this would be implemented, a ghost-mod for hotlapping could not be that difficult to make...

Would that violate some patents?

Quote from XCNuse :

sorry but im gonna have to go against you in this one tristan; think of it as a learning tool, you can see the mistakes you made/how you can improve a turn, brake, accel points or whatever

its not really an "arcady" thing, its a learning tool designed to show where you made mistakes

and as you said about replay analyser.. that doesnt show you mistakes or improvements.. it only shows you what and how fast you did something.. plus its a top down view which.. can be deceptive very easily

A simple replay will show you more than a ghost car would. Real drivers would have to watch a video of their run and check telemetry data, LFS is pretty much the same.

but this is where technology comes in (well.. that and human laziness lol) i mean.. honestly i've never touched the replay analyser cause i have no idea how it works.. and im sure alot of people dont want to mess with an addition just to see a helicopter view of what they did.. for some people (like me)... that doesnt help much at all; plus unlike a ghost car, its not real time, so you cant see what you did differently.. this very second

Plus you get the chance to overtake yourself at the weak spot. I think all those arguments that its not enough realism are not applicable here, its a lot of fun and its a definitively easy to use way of seeing where you were fast and where you could improve.
After all LFS has more of those points where its not realistic, I think its enough that the physics model is as realistic as possible, the rest of the game should make the experience of playing as easy as possible and as attractive as possible
Stefan

if ghost car is pattented, you could make just ghost wheels with forces or line that is drawing on the track. Line would be cool. Colours could indicated acc. or braking. This would look like in Replay Analizer, but in real time.