I posted a replay menu enhancement thread a while back and now I just decided to do the same for the setup menu.

In the pictures below I have shown "my version" of how some of the wanted features (like setup filtering, egine torque curves and more specific transmission setup options for example) could be implemented. Part of the idea was that most of the stuff should be possible to do with the current gui.

Of course this is not the only way or the best way of doing this, but I have tried to put some effort in it so it should be functional, logical and still it should include lots of improvements

Comments and criticism, please, I'm ready to update or to redo it if turns out to be useless


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Explanations:
In the first attachment I have shown how the layout could be changed with some info visible all the time plus new stuff (car specs, torque/power curves). Let's start from the top:

"Filter setups by track"
I think that subfolders should not be used simply because it makes everything more complicated. Downloading setups and then trying to find the right folder - no thanks. It would also require a major rewrite on how LFS handles setups and sending setups (me thinks). Instead I like the system (This is not actually my idea, I'm just ripping it off. I saw this on another thread) where the setups are filtered by prefixes. And LFS can already do this. So, by choosing the desired options in the filter and only the filtered setups are shown. The prefixes could be like LX6_so2_setupname and then this setup would be shown only when the 2nd SO track is chosen on the filter. The filter works with exactly the same logic as the car filter in the server screen. Same colors apply. (And it would be nice if the setup names could be little longer )

Below the track options is the "Autofilter by track" -button which allows LFS to automatically show only the setups for the track where you are currently. So when this is enabled, LFS automatically filters the setups so that only matching setups are shown. I have left the reversed option out as it would just make the system more complicated with really no extra value.
Setups which don't have prefixes are seen as "misc" setups and are filtered as such.

"Set as favourite" -button"
When you have found a good set for certain combo, you can "assign" that setup as a favorite setup by pressing that button. Favourite setups are then marked by that blue ball. The blue ball is shown only when you are on the track for which the setup is set to be favourite (or reversed). The blue ball is also shown on the "Set as favourite" -button" to make it clear for the user what the ball means.

Buttons to toggle car liveries, garage views and colors
I have also removed all the non setup related stuff away from the setup menu to a toggleable menu shown on the left. This includes car liveries (=car skins), car colors (=colors for the car) and the view options for the garage (dropping the car, suspension view...). Basically it works the same as with current version but imho it is more logical and straighforward when all options are in one place.

Other totally new features:
* Torque/power graph shown next to the car specs (even the first gran turismo had this :shy
* speed versus rpm and torque versus speed graphical presentations shown and dynamically updated as the transmission values are changed. (and this too )
* transmission values are presented based on teeth number of the cogs (like it was in papyrus sims) instead of the exact ratios. This is more realistic and slightly limits the amount of possible ratios available.
* in the second attachment I have shown how the notepad could be done on setups.
* in the third attachment I have shown how I have slightly changed the setup menus by moving the car roof option and passenger count on own sub menu. And There should be the fuel submenu also, but it seems that I forgot it totally. I'll update it to the next one
* the fourth attachment just shows what happens when the user wants to "edit" or "create new" car livery. A name is required for the livery.

EDIT: the green color is just my color scheme. The color scheme is not he point

Very nice... A bit cramped on first sight, but I like the extra info you put in there...

Dude... too much spare time.

Nice though.

Just realised, after I came up with an idea, and had it (I thought) amended by Gunn, that you've already got 'show all' and favourites. Thus I am now rather embarrassed, and plan to shut up and go outside. Whoops.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Bah, in typing it I've realised it's far too complicated that way, and the 'show all' option is much better after all.

But if you could just tag the sets that were universal (so to speak) they could appear always.
Favourites.

Nice setup screen ! =]

Does look cramed at first and the colours are not my favourite but it has more sorted things and looks easy to use.

I like

+1, this or something very similar would be great.

Some great changes, hope we see some if not all of them put into use.

Oh yes, I like it. We really should have the torgue curves and telemetry data, would be very usefull, and it would give us more buttons to play with and maybe, just maybe some people could drop the "arcade" statements

I'd really like to see more negative comments, because it just can't be that good. I'll fix the errors and maybe make slight adjustments to it.

It looks a bit cramped, I'll try to do something about it too (like using proper resolutions )

EDIT: hmm, maybe the "favourite" needs more refining, some non-downforce cars can use one setup pretty well on many tracks so maube some kind of "universal favourite" might be useful. But having 2 different favourites, needs some thinking... And that show all button needs to be added, even though it is almost there

Well, I'm not saying the design should be used 1:1, but I like the kind of information that's being displayed/added. I don't quite get how gearing is supposed to work, though. You should be able to edit both gearwheels independently, so I guess some buttons would have to be added.

Quote from AndroidXP :

I don't quite get how gearing is supposed to work, though. You should be able to edit both gearwheels independently, so I guess some buttons would have to be added.

The only difference basically is how the ratio of the two cogs is displayed. If we count the 1st gear ratio (12/41 = 0.293) we can see from the result that the engine turns 41 times per time x but the outcome shaft turns 12 revolutions per time x. So the outcome torque is basically (41/12=)3.4167 times the engine torque.

(TorqueIn * rpmIn = TorqueOut * rpmOut <-> PowerIn = PowerOut)

Now if we want to change this ratio, we need to change both cogs. Replacing other cog with a smaller one (with fewer teeth) there is chance that the cogs "don't match" anymore. So when you wanted to increase the ratio (=make the gear "shorter") you would want to a) make the 1st cog smaller and b) the second cog slightly larger so the ratio of the cogs gets bigger. With current version we can adjust this ratio by 0.001 which would mean in real life that the cogs have very many teeth, or that their radius would be quite big.

With the system I suggested the increment of 2 ratios would now not be the 0.001 but something bigger. Let's take 1 teeth off from the smaller cog and let's give the bigger cog 3 teeth more: now the ratio is 44/11 = 4,0. You don't need to insert (or can) the cog teeth numbers, LFS counts them for you. The difference is that the increments between ratios would be a bit bigger than with the current system. But it wouldn't be as big as you may think when you look at my calculations above. Real transmissions have more teeth in their cogs than my example had (12 ) so the increments are smaller as well.

I thought it was a clearer system when it is shown to the user where the numbers comes from.

Quote from Hyperactive :

I'd really like to see more negative comments, because it just can't be that good. I'll fix the errors and maybe make slight adjustments to it.

I think you're not seeing criticism because the ideas are excellent. Sure, we could pick on page-layout type issues in presenting all that info, but it wasn't your goal to produce a final draft, just a rough mockup, right?

Refining the "favourite" system could be cool. I can imagine having "hotlap favourite", "short race favourite" and "long race favourite" setups for instance.

While I'm at it, one feature I would love to see on the setup menu -- which would mean squeezing even more info on to the screen -- is to highlight the differences between two setups. I often want to look at where a recently donated or downloaded setup differs from my old one. Wouldn't it be convenient if there was a way to show both setups side-by-side, and even use colour-coding to indicate options on which they differed to a greater or lesser extent?

I really like the cog layout that you have here and many people have asked for more realistic gears in the past. Showing the number of teeth on the input/output cog is how other games like GTR show their gears. It makes sense, it's realistic, and it prevents the "infinite setup" issue that we have now (or at least, it hopefully would be limted to prevent that).

Very nice !

Nice Hyper, great ideas +twelvety

+1
and i think you should add spring frequency and normalized damper values as well

My, that's the kind of well organised and comprehensive setup menu I've always wished for.

+infinity for this new menu design.

Nice torque curves. Those would be a boon for setting up a car. And those gear ratios are much better than the currently unrealistic numerics. IRL, gear ratios can only be expressed exactly as fractions anyway.

The only problem wit this menu design is the rather dreary menu colour choices. Too much monotone green all over the place. Then again, I'm used gauging car behavior via telemetric graphical data lines, so that's not too much of a problem for me.

Oki, updated the menus:

Added setup filtering buttons:
* Show all
* Show favourites only

Slight modification to the setup favourite system. Now there are two ways to "highlight" a setup: 1) the setup is set as favourite and is shown on particular combos only and 2) setup is shown always

Added the speed slider (Bob's idea, iirc) on the "Views" sub menu on the left. I think it should be shown with all cars, and it should not be part of setup settings because it does not change anything in the car. The speed slider can be used with the forces view or suspension view to show forces on certain speed or suspension travel etc.. I was thinking about adding similar yaw and pitch sliders there as well, but would those be needed or used?

Added fuel tank size to the car specs shown up-left.

New "Pitting" menu:
Refueling:
This system is based on preselected amount of pitstops and estimation of total fuel consumption. If the race is going to be 1337 laps on Ky3R with LX6 and the total fuel consumption for such race is 190% (exactly, without any safety margin), this number is used as the base number for the fueling on pitstops.
In the example I have set the amount of total fuel consumption to 190%. On first pitstop I want to leave the pits with 55% fuel in tank. On second stop I want to leave with 55% as well. We know that we had some fuel when we entered the pits so if we take just 45% on 3rd stop we won't be able to finish the race before the fuel runs out. In this system the amount of fuel that is added on 3rd pitstop is calculated by LFS. Simply by looking at how much fuel has been used just before the car enters on 3rd piststop, LFS is able to calculate how much fuel out of 190% is to be used. In this case that number is 45% (if everything goes as planned). The safety margin is to be added to this 45% (making it 50% in this case).
Tire change
As the user has selected 3 stop strategy he can change his/her tires 3 times during the race. On all stops user can choose what tires should be changed to the car and different wear limits can be set independantly for front and rear tires.
As part of the pit stop strategy user can choose whether he wants his damage fixed on pitstops. If it possible to fix. The "If less time than" slider is meant for the longer races. If it says that fixing the car takes 20 minutes, there is no use to fix that on short sprint race, but on longer races it may be worth it. This doesn't mean that the everything can be replaced if enough time is available. If the car is totally wrecked, it can't be fixed. Imho

Quote from Jamexing :

The only problem wit this menu design is the rather dreary menu colour choices. Too much monotone green all over the place. Then again, I'm used gauging car behavior via telemetric graphical data lines, so that's not too much of a problem for me.

It is just my color theme, the layout is actually the point

Quote from thisnameistaken :

*head explodes*

All I want is - when I select a setup - it says "This is the one you picked last time"

So basically you want that LFS remembers what setup you used for the combo when you drove it last time? Like going to the BL1R with FOX and LFS would use the last used BL1R setup for FOX instead of the [default]? If I understood it correctly it sounds good.

For me the "notes" part would probably be the most wanted feature - so trivial, yet so useful. There's only so much info you can cram into a setup name, and while the recently added rename feature is quite a relief, you still get confused if you have six test versions of the same setup lying around with no idea what each one was for.

I don't think we need such a complex menu just for pitting... I mean yes, setting tire change for front and rear seperately would be really handy and the damage might be one day, but I don't think we need three sliders and a bunch of equations for the fuel... I always found the fuel system we have now completely sufficient...

+1 good work... when do i get it? 'g'