As some of you may be aware, the fact that I'm not very good at LFS has become something of a running joke around here (which I don't really mind), but this thread made me decide to try my very best (which in the past hasn't been anything like good enough ) to drive a car super-duper fast like the super-duper fast guys do.

I decided to concentrate on one combo for the night and try to get within a second of the world record. I get bored easily so I picked the LX4 at SO Long to keep my concentration up, and I did close to 100 laps. My best time was a 1:51.150, which is exactly 1.5 seconds off the current WR - not bad at all for me.

So I decided to change my goal a bit - I'm going to try to beat the current world record. *cue riotous laughter* So obviously I'm going to need some (lots of) help (possibly psychiatric), and if any of you are feeling kind or bored enough, this is how you can help (in ascending order of helpfulness):

1) Watch lap three of the attached replay and tell me where you think I'm losing this 1.5 seconds. Is there something obviously bad about the way I'm driving? Are there corners that I drive especially badly? When comparing my lap to the WR at LFSWorld I'm losing pretty much the same amount of time in each sector, so I think it must be a general bad driving thing.

2) Try the attached setup and tell me if/why it's not good enough - it's almost the same as the SO1R set at SetupField credited to Biohazard. I think I'm pretty happy with the balance of the car, but the only thing I really need to preserve is the stability when turning in and coming off the brakes - I'm useless at dealing with cars that want to change ends when turning and braking.

3) Explain how I can use replay analysers to work these things out for myself. I've got F1PerfView and AnalyseForSpeed installed, but I haven't a clue how to use any of this data to improve my lap or my setup. This would be especially helpful - I suppose it's like the teaching the man to fish thing (I've always been crap at fishing too, but I'm not all that desperate to improve my fishing abilities, so please disregard the fishing proverb analogy).

Any help much appreciated!

Kev, dont pay so much attention to people who have WRs. I mean, sure its cool, but the best way to earn a reputation is through hard racing and winning races of all kinds (Sprint and Endurance). WRs mean nothing compared to these things.

Well i gave it a try and only could do a 1.51.47 (same set as Kev's) with no practice at all even lfsworld say i have no pb or laps done on this combo so not

EDIT: beat that time by a bit 1.50.74

haha poor kev, maybe ill try same set combo you have there see what I can get? Then compare.

I see when you are braking you lock the front right alot of the time, but with the same setup i do not lock up any wheels. The only thing i can say is try adding a little throttle to help keep the car more stable underbraking and it also helps locking up the wheels

The thing that is slowing you down the most is you are going to fast into some corner and going wide on the exit, the most common thing in lfs that has stuck to me is slow in fast out, easier to control the car and does not more correcting with the wheel

we should do a kev aid concert to raise some money with which we can buy him lessons with that scottish lady they had on top gear last season

Quote from Shotglass :

we should do a kev aid concert to raise some money with which we can buy him lessons with that scottish lady they had on top gear last season

She was not scottish she was german and a bloody good driver TBH for a woman

Quote from rc10racer :

the most common thing in lfs that has stuck to me is slow in fast out

yea, that is one of the best things to learn in real life or in sims...going into a corner slower will allow you get back on the gas earlier in the turn. Also try to be as smooth as you can...a squealing(sliding) tire is slower than one that is not.

Quote from rc10racer :

She was not scottish she was german and a bloody good driver TBH for a woman

im not talking about sabine

Quote from dave4002000 :

yea, that is one of the best things to learn in real life or in sims...going into a corner slower will allow you get back on the gas earlier in the turn. Also try to be as smooth as you can...a squealing(sliding) tire is slower than one that is not.

well when u drive on the edge of the maximum grip, ur tires will squeal
squealing doesnt mean directly u lose grip

Quote from thisnameistaken :

3) Explain how I can use replay analysers to work these things out for myself. I've got F1PerfView and AnalyseForSpeed installed, but I haven't a clue how to use any of this data to improve my lap or my setup. This would be especially helpful - I suppose it's like the teaching the man to fish thing (I've always been crap at fishing too, but I'm not all that desperate to improve my fishing abilities, so please disregard the fishing proverb analogy).

Don't miss out on that one!

First, open and view the replay in LFS, then in the lap before the fastest one, hit ESC and choose "Output lap data". Give it a name and it will be placed in <LFS>/data/raf. Continue to watch the fastest lap (also works in fast forward mode). Do this for both the WR and your best lap (two raf files).

Then, in AFS go to File > Open, and select both these raf files - they're now both loaded into AFS. Now you can start (or stop) the "replay" of the driving lines with "S", slow down (or single-frame back) with "A" and speed up (or single-frame forward) with "D".

In AFS you can exactly compare your racing line, speed, braking-/entry points, throttle/brake input, etc. to that of the WR. Watching this makes it really obvious where you're losing time - kinda like using Ghostcar but not ingame and with more info available. One thing you'll probably notice, is that the WR holders seem to release the brake relatively early (shortly after turning in), then they coast towards apex, and even before reaching apex they start to smoothly apply throttle, having already 100% throttle at or slightly before apex. What also happens to me is, that I "overbrake" a corner, simply braking too long and getting too slow, whereas coasting would've easily get me through the corner quite a few km/h faster.

You can give my South City Long Rev set a spin. I'm about .7 of a second of the Long Rev WR with it and I'm sure I'd be able to get more out of it. Hope it helps.

I just did some 40 odd laps (LX4@SO4) and my best is 1:51.44. So if Kev is aiming to get a wr, then I'm aiming to beat Kev. Only 1:51.44 - 1:51.150 = 0.29 to go

I need more practise...

Good thread this.

I’m in much the same boat as Kev. 1.5 seconds seems to be as close as I can get to most WRs (apart from the short courses). One of my problems is that I’m a creature of habit. Once I’ve done a lot of laps on a circuit it’s hard for me to adjust my lines to get quicker. This slows my learning process quite a lot. Like Kev, I seem to lose the same amount of time in all sectors.

I’ve used AFS and F1PerfView quite a bit and what I notice is that the really fast blokes carry more speed to apexes than me. I’m usually just as fast mid corner and exit but I often lose time on entry. If I try to brake later or carry more speed to the apex it often results in me losing speed at exit.

These things seem to be what’s holding me back but I haven’t given up trying to get onto top level pace and I do seem to be getting a little faster at least.

I watch this thread with interest.

Quote from Gentlefoot :

I’m usually just as fast mid corner and exit but I often lose time on entry.

Same here.

I'm almost certain this has to do with car balance. If your car is well balanced while turning in, it's more likely you'll get through the turn without sliding and thus with a higher speed.

I think the feeling for the right car balance comes with practise, but it also has a lot to do with talent. Some people are just better in "feeling" what is the best throttle-brake-steering angle-combination (because that is what it comes down to basically!!) than others.

Imo I'll never get there, but again, pure practise has made me improve my turn-in speed quite a lot.

Tips

right then - to aggressive on the brakes, power earlier (esp T2). More aggressive through the chicane. Tight corner down to the car park. Your braking to late and need to brake earlier to have more control and aim for power before the Apex. Going up to the motorway you tapped the wall which DOES slow you down! Your understeering too much at the u-turn after the flyover, turn in more!
The WR gets full throttle round the first bend, you can too.

Telemetry

I've included the RAF files of your lap and the WR lap for you to look at, and i've looked and compared lines (in the zips). An image of what F1PerfView says is included (if you want to compare your lines then use Analyze for Speed) of it both in MPH or KPH because i forgot to change it to MPH the first time. As you'd expect your minimum, maximum and average speeds are all slightly lower than his. His minimum revs is 6,000, about 500 more than yours, and his maximum revs are 10,000, while you go 700 higher. He (as you'd expect) steers, and brakes, less than you. He makes 4 less shifts than you and drives 2.499 miles, 0.007 less than you (lines are out then!).

Lines

The WR bloke starts more to the left side than you do. He takes the first bend (wont call it the first corner as it should be full throttle) flat out, and much tighter (ie he goes on the rumble strips. He takes it right to the wall (you don't need to go that extreme, mind), but you go into the middle of the track for no reason, while he stays on the outside until he turns in. You get on the power sooner but the line was wrong and you gain no advantage. 90 Degree bend, one of my least favourite corners, need to make it less tight, although your getting on the power sooner at least. Same for the next (and most) corner, you brake that bit later, and get on the power that bit sooner, because you are focusing on giving it power rather than the line you take. Chicane - you enter it too wide, and don't flow out to the edge after it. On the next corner you could keep it tighter. Exit of the SO1 Chicane, which for you is a hairpin, you need to brake earlier, and get on the power sooner, and try to kiss the Apex, good line though, just in the wrong place, this corner has lost you a fair bit of time. Because of the tap on the wall he's pulling away from you on the motorway, at the u-turn at the end everythings good, except you need to kiss the apex, as your having to avoid the wall which is slowing you down.

Hope this helps!

Do you find it 'unnatural' now that you're actually fast? The WR laps I have seen made me frown illepall . The way the cars are driven seems odd. And of course I blame my lack of speed on alledged physics unrealism..

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

Do you find it 'unnatural' now that you're actually fast? The WR laps I have seen made me frown illepall . The way the cars are driven seems odd. And of course I blame my lack of speed on alledged physics unrealism..

That's the difference between an alien, and a regular fast guy...

The regular guy will drive the car to its realistic limit, assuming the physics will be realistic and as such would seriously slow you down when you drive unrealistically.

The alien will drive to the limits of the physics engine, cutting corners and jumping kerbs which would kill you in real life.

I just looked at my bp's raf output and noticed that Kev and Paps have the throttling values around 65% / 25% / 10% (full/between/none) and I have basically 71% / 29% / 0%. Also noticed a lot different things but I need to get some more laps. 1:50 should be doable once I get my lines sorted

PS. TagForce. I thought the average driver drives the car as fast he can while the alien drives the car as fast as the car can go

EDIT: new pb: 1:51.16. Still 0.01 to go to beat Kev... And I just can't go faster

Quote from TagForce :

That's the difference between an alien, and a regular fast guy...

The regular guy will drive the car to its realistic limit, assuming the physics will be realistic and as such would seriously slow you down when you drive unrealistically.

The alien will drive to the limits of the physics engine, cutting corners and jumping kerbs which would kill you in real life.

Wooaaah, now that's well put man!

If your using a clutch pedal. Is it possible to 'Heel and toe' for the brakes where you gotta give it a bit of gas?

That could be handy for you.

Sorry if you already do that and this post is useless :P

This is really interesting, I've had a quick go but don't have anything much yet, still trying to handle the first bend and the downhill left before the motorway :s

I definitely agree with maximising the exit, I find it's one simple thing to focus on when learning tracks that gives a lot of benefit.

I think that Nigel Mansell used to concentrate on his corner entry, with the view that if it is correct then the rest of the corner will follow. It's definitely worked for me in the past tho, generally I'll enter a corner a little fast by mistake, but somehow it tucks into the apex a little better and I've learnt a new line

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I can't really do that because I'm using a clutch pedal and braking with my right foot.

I'm afraid thats another way you're losing time to the 'aliens'. Again on the principle of 'to hell with realism', every car becomes like an F1 in LFS. Left foot braking and auto-clutched shifting are a given for most if not all of those WR times.

I would love to heel-and-toe and use an H-pattern shifter but I never do because I know the guys pulling away from me ahead are LFB'ing and flicking a paddle.

Hi Kev, hilarious thread

Well, I'd like to make a little contribution to you in terms of setups. I just downloaded the LX4 SO3 set from setupfield and created my own SO4 set out of it.
So far this set has done 1:49.54 HLVC (that lap is actually crap , I had splits for 1:49.1x) and it is quite easy to control. Somehow the fastest way to drive it is just to drift a little bit into the turns (that's kind of a phenomenon with the S2 physics, it even works on the BF1). However this is quite hard to pull off consistently and I can't really expect you to copy that technique But I think you might find this set has its place.

Keep practising and I hope you'll succeed in your undertaking. I must say you chose quite a tough combo to begin with though :/

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Woo! I'm a tiny bit faster than somebody!

After few more laps (I haven't hotlapped all day, mind you ) I got a 1:51:03 and 1:51:03 with splits for a mid-1:50. I guess with more effort I could do a low 1:50 but those 1:49s seems very far away atm.

Replay and set attached. The set is Axus' set (I'm not sure though ) with some braking tweaks. Now, gotta go try that 1:50... I'll be back in few months

(sorry for hijacking your thread )