Hello, I need you help good sir. Yes i do.

Here is the deal. I’m having a race tonight (21:00 – GMT -3) on the Brazilian League in which I participate.
We’re using the Formula XR (FOX) car and tonight we”ll be racing around the Blackwood GP circuit.

All of which is pretty cool.
There are lots of servers to practice on (you might have seen me racing on redline racing or somewhere else on the last 2 weeks) and lots of sets and stuff. It’s a popular combo. For better or worse.

I’ve been using “lately” (last 400 laps?) a really good set which Racin Jason sent me (thanks mate, before that I was using a set from Goop, thanks for that too pal). It’s pretty good for a sprint race. As a matter of fact the owner (which is a lot better pilot than me) regularly lands 1:07:7Xs and even lower on a 5-6 laps race.

That’s good.
With a lot of training (I’m not only a really slow driver, I just know LFS for a couple of months or so) I’ve managed to lower my time to 1:08:50~ with consistency or even lower if I “push” it a little harder (but still, under control).

All in all it’s pretty ok, right?

Yeah…

Well, the problem is that we”ll be racing two 22 laps batteries.
22 laps isn’t “too much”, far from it. But the problem is that my R1s surely don’t last that long.
Then I”ll change it to R2s, right?

Yeah, I did that. But I can’t seem for the life of me to get those sonsabitches to “function” properly on my setup.
I’ve tried a lot of changes on the tyres’ pressures and camber but nothing came of it.

Did I mention that I’m utterly oblivious as to how to make a good setup? Or any setup for that matter.
Well, I’m.

So, I turn to you my comrades :P, to help me adjust my tyres for this race.
It’s the second to last race of the season and I’m at second place only 2 points behind the leader (no no, the brazilian league really doesn’t suck that bad, it’s just that most of the good drivers are running on the other cup we’re running at the same time and the few fast ones on this FOX thing had some really bad luck on the couple first races), so please help me !!

Here are some attachments:

That’s my sprint setup settings:




And three of my attempts at a 22laps set:








Here you can get a sample of my crappy driving, if it’s needed:
http://www.lfsworld.net/get_spr.php?file=32155

So far I’ve messed around with the pressure and camber, as you can see.
But, especially my right ones, my tyres doesn’t even start to heat up (and that’s even with some serious low pressure) even after 10/15 laps…
And the bizarre thing is that i'm a "tyre waster" (it should help to heat up things), as you can notice on my hotlap. But even that doesn't seem to help me.

I can't get the temps on the right tyres to "match" too. The inside temps are a whole 10 degrees cooler than the middle temps.

Please help me on this one, will you?
It’s a FOX on BL1.

22 Laps.

It shouldn’t be too hard. I guess.
And maybe you could provide me with some more specific figures? (since its a fox and bl1 setup). But i"ll be glad to learn some "general concepts" too. If i can get to apply those in time, hehe.

I really appreciate any kind of input.
And I’ve got yet some time to test those so.. fire away your suggestions.

Thanks a lot.

Ps: sorry about my poor English, I’m Brazilian and the English language isn’t my finest asset, hehe.

You might want to attach the setup itself instead of the values of your tires, I'm no setup guru but I'm sure the suspension setup also has a word to say in this tire matter
Like said I'm no setup guru, but I just usually have higher setup and less camper and it, most of the time, works. It might not be optimum , one point to note is that the fresh tires will heat up first and when they get thinner the temps will drop, not sure if that 22 laps distance is enough to show that thou, atleast Blackwood has long straight to cool down the tires. Your style also has a great effect how your tires will heat up, remember that.

Quote from Blackout :

You might want to attach the setup itself instead of the values of your tires, I'm no setup guru but I'm sure the suspension setup also has a word to say in this tire matter
Like said I'm no setup guru, but I just usually have higher setup and less camper and it, most of the time, works. It might not be optimum , one point to note is that the fresh tires will heat up first and when they get thinner the temps will drop, not sure if that 22 laps distance is enough to show that thou, atleast Blackwood has long straight to cool down the tires. Your style also has a great effect how your tires will heat up, remember that.

There goes the setup, chief.
http://maxupload.com/B50731699

As i said, i'm really ignorant when it comes to setups, heh.
I know i"ll be slower on R2s (even heated ones) but if possible i don't want to change a whole lot on the setup apart from the tyres or else since i won't be used to the setup i won't be able to do consistent lap times...


If you can, take a look at it and tell me what i should try.
Edit: I'm interested in tyres lasting longer, and not faster times.

Thanks.

You will also be slower because you have more fuel in the race. I take a look but don't expect that much :P

Oh, btw you can attach small files to your posts and the forum will upload them

Ok, Im crap with the combo. Sorry

From my experience with the FOX, i'm rather surprised that you are looking to use R2.
I managed (like all the others in the race we deed last week) to complete 18 laps at AS Hist with R1, without problems.

You should be able to do it on BL easily.

Quote from Blackout :

Ok, Im crap with the combo. Sorry

Ohh.. but crappier than me you couldn't possibly be..
Anyway i'm not looking for faster times, or a setup that"ll make me faster or something.

I just need my tyres working properly.
With a good temperature and lasting 22 laps...

Do you have any idea of how i can manage that?

Thanks for your time already, tho.

Quote from flyby3d :

From my experience with the FOX, i'm rather surprised that you are looking to use R2.
I managed (like all the others in the race we deed last week) to complete 18 laps at AS Hist with R1, without problems.

You should be able to do it on BL easily.

Maybe it's my driving style but no, "you" can't.
I drove 36 laps ar SO Classic on R1s.
30 laps on KY Nat, on R1s.
32 laps on WE Rev, on R1s again.

All of those with no problems whatsoever and still going "fast".

It's just this damn blackwood tha really doesn't seem to go well with R1s at that lenght.

IF you have the time man, do some laps there, say 15, going fast, you"ll see what i mean.

I have no idea about what the FOX on BL1 is like, but I'm pretty sure R1 tyres can last through that distance. This, however, is mostly down to the driver and his driving style. Usually the drivers coming close to WR pace have much longer lasting tyres because of how smooth and error-less they drive.

Anyhow, some time ago I was driving 15 lappers on SO Long with the FOX, and while it seemed crazy at first, as soon as I got better and more importantly consistent, I started noticing the heatcycles of the tyre. After a few laps the tyres are slightly overheated (greenish orange on F9 view), but then they stabilize and slowly start cooling down again. At the 15th lap, there was still plenty of tread left and the tyres weren't even nearly finished cooling down, so they could've lasted quite a bunch more laps.

On sprint races you usually don't drive long enough to see that cool down phase, so you think that the R1 tyres would just heat up even more and that they are at their limit after 5-6 laps, which is obviously far from the truth. Again, I don't know how stressful BL1 is for the R1 tyres (compared to SO4), but in my opinion 22 laps should be quite doable.

Yep, I agree...

Unfortunately now I'm not able to run a test on BL, but yesterday I was practicing my next race on FOX@SOLong and I run 22laps with R1

EDIT: Have you tried using R1 with lower camber (around 2.4front 2.0rear)? Sometimes also lowering (slightly) tire pressure will have better grip, thus less sliding and less heat buildup...

Quote from AndroidXP :

I have no idea about what the FOX on BL1 is like, but I'm pretty sure R1 tyres can last through that distance. This, however, is mostly down to the driver and his driving style. Usually the drivers coming close to WR pace have much longer lasting tyres because of how smooth and error-less they drive.

Anyhow, some time ago I was driving 15 lappers on SO Long with the FOX, and while it seemed crazy at first, as soon as I got better and more importantly consistent, I started noticing the heatcycles of the tyre. After a few laps the tyres are slightly overheated (greenish orange on F9 view), but then they stabilize and slowly start cooling down again. At the 15th lap, there was still plenty of tread left and the tyres weren't even nearly finished cooling down, so they could've lasted quite a bunch more laps.

On sprint races you usually don't drive long enough to see that cool down phase, so you think that the R1 tyres would just heat up even more and that they are at their limit after 5-6 laps, which is obviously far from the truth. Again, I don't know how stressful BL1 is for the R1 tyres (compared to SO4), but in my opinion 22 laps should be quite doable.

Yeah, i know what you mean.
But with my current setup and "driving style" (the way i learned to work this track) i've tested it already and can't do 22 laps. Thus that's why i need help, R2s or even maybe a improved R1 situation.. i dunno.

Thanks for the insight, anyway.

Quote from flyby3d :

Yep, I agree...

Unfortunately now I'm not able to run a test on BL, but yesterday I was practicing my next race on FOX@SOLong and I run 22laps with R1

EDIT: Have you tried using R1 with lower camber (around 2.4front 2.0rear)? Sometimes also lowering (slightly) tire pressure will have better grip, thus less sliding and less heat buildup...

When you say lower you mean negative? Or positive?
Gimme some numbers and i sure will try those.

Also, you see that i work with full (max) pressure on my hotlap set, right?
What pressure would you suggest?

Thanks.


Now i'm heading for the market and won't be able to test anything for about one and a half hour or so, but i will get cracking on it, guaranteed.

R1's on the FOX will easily last 22 laps and more at BL.... raise the tyre pressures to max or near max and they will be fine.... and you'll still get good lap times from them too easily around the late 1.08's at the start of the race... then as they wear towards the second half of the race they will cool down loads as the tread gets thinner and you should probably see low 1.08's

just checked the vixen challenge website and the first race of last season was at BL... it was a 40 lapper and i didnt have to change tyres using max pressures on the r1's.... i got a 1.08.44 which although not the best was pretty good for me at the time... the setup i had made for that race was no where near ideal either!! lol

For the FOX you will almost never have to use anything other than R1s in any race provided you adjust pressures and camber accordingly

Yeah, i've got someone else to go to the market for me so i can test things out.

Quote from andy_bonjon :

For the FOX you will almost never have to use anything other than R1s in any race provided you adjust pressures and camber accordingly

Could you share with me yor camber and pressures for that setup, sir?

If you guys can do it, MAYBE i can too.
I just need the info to tweak my setup.

Btw if you have a .mpr (replay) from that race you mentioned i would be very interested.

Thanks man.

Two ways you can go as I see it.

Either stick with R1s and attempt to reduce temps by hiking up pressure (looks like they're at max already), soften suspension, reduce negative camber, lower diff locking.

Or switch to R2s and try and get some heat into them, drop the tyre pressures, increase camber, stiffen suspension, increase diff locking.

On a track like Blackwood with mostly one-way turns, the outside tyres will always be cooler than the inside.

Btw we have a setups forum for all things setup related, I'll move your thread over there now.

Quote from Meanie :

Yeah, i've got someone else to go to the market for me so i can test things out.



Could you share with me yor camber and pressures for that setup, sir?

If you guys can do it, MAYBE i can too.
I just need the info to tweak my setup.

Btw if you have a .mpr (replay) from that race you mentioned i would be very interested.

Thanks man.

Pressures where max and live camber would have been about 2.6 front and 2.2 rear.... however those are just guesses! Unfortunately Im not at home and i wont be back until about 23.30 gmt tonight

my set was fairly soft as i was still learning back then both how to drive and how to do setups... however i know the top guys didnt change tyres either and they were using only slightly modified hl setups

if you want the replay check out www.vixenchallenge.co.uk and if you look in the forums section you should be able to find a link to the replay there

Quote from Bob Smith :

Two ways you can go as I see it.

Either stick with R1s and attempt to reduce temps by hiking up pressure (looks like they're at max already), soften suspension, reduce negative camber, lower diff locking.

Or switch to R2s and try and get some heat into them, drop the tyre pressures, increase camber, stiffen suspension, increase diff locking.

On a track like Blackwood with mostly one-way turns, the outside tyres will always be cooler than the inside.

Btw we have a setups forum for all things setup related, I'll move your thread over there now.

Yeah man, exactly how i see it too.
So.. with "numbers" what exactly i should do on the "R1 attempt"?
As you said, yeah, its already on max pressure.

What other values i can change to make it a lil less "heat prone"?

I just did a 22 lapper with a softer foot and managed to finish it..
Just not too great times, you know?
Mainly cause i'm keeping it "slow"...

If i have the confidence that they wont "melt" on me i can be a lil faster and then i'm set

Quote from andy_bonjon :

Pressures where max and live camber would have been about 2.6 front and 2.2 rear.... however those are just guesses! Unfortunately Im not at home and i wont be back until about 23.30 gmt tonight

my set was fairly soft as i was still learning back then both how to drive and how to do setups... however i know the top guys didnt change tyres either and they were using only slightly modified hl setups

if you want the replay check out www.vixenchallenge.co.uk and if you look in the forums section you should be able to find a link to the replay there

2.6 and 2.2?
positive, negative?
help me out here

sorry lol... they are supposed to be negative, i cant really think of a time when you'd want positive camber!

remember that those are 'live camber' values and are different from actual settings