Quote from LFSn00b :

Are you crazy? Not everyone can afford a wheel, and they just don't want to drive with mouse.

I guess the steering aids for keyboard use are to much. IRL it wont be possible to drive a real car with a keyboard. Only because of alot of aids is it possible to drive with it, and i guess some racers wont learn to use axes of joysticks, wheels and mouses for absolutely control of brake force and throttle force and steering wheels position because they will use the aids.
If they wont use a mouse, and cant use a wheel, why cant they use a joystick to? And whats wrong with the mouse? In counter strike will they aim a weapon, that need a great precision, why cant the same persons use the mouse for steering a car?? This i really cant understand.

Quote from matze54564 :

In counter strike will they aim a weapon, that need a great precision, why cant the same persons use the mouse for steering a car?? This i really cant understand.

They use mouse because there isn't affordable game controller for guns. Aiming with real weapon doesn't have much to do with aiming (more like pointing) with mouse. Totally different thing. In a car you use wheel, in a game you use wheel.

Quote from Scawen :

Hello Racers!

Here is a new compatible Patch : X10

Thanks for the hard work and obvious dedication! It's nice when developers go to such lengths to support their product. Just want to acknowledge it.

Quote from Falcon140 :

Now i cant race anymore...

I get 2 fps in cockpit......

compared to my 13 in custom...

@GianniC

Agreed completly

How in the world you find 13 fps playable? :jawdrop:

Quote from LFSn00b :

every other car sim has still kb available

nope.

Quote from Doorman :

Despite the prophets of doom we spend a great evening of racing fcv. Attendances didn't fall off and no-one complained....I lie; one guy joined, said 'Forced cockpit?', '???', 'Goodbye then' and left. He came back 2 seconds later and said 'A thought, you should advertise it so as not to waste people's time' He'd gone by the time I typed 'It's in the server list marked F'

That was me.
I`m sorry that we`ll never meet again on the tracks

Quote from Avatar13 :

Thanks for the hard work and obvious dedication! It's nice when developers go to such lengths to support their product. Just want to acknowledge it.

+1 :d

Quote from Falcon140 :

Now i cant race anymore...

I get 2 fps in cockpit......

compared to my 13 in custom...

@GianniC

Agreed completly

Thats your fault...not the Devs.

I agree with it..and besides, its an OPTION.

I'm really astonished by those replys like:

"... cockpit view... HURA!!!... Finally! LFS is becoming a real sim ..."

Hello! LFS has the cockpit view right from the start!

How does this forcing feature from the server side will contribute for a more real sim? It will contribute for a more empty sim, that's for sure...

I undestand that some of you like to use the cockpit view, and like to be as much hardcore as you can, but if you already use the cockpit view when you race, why in the world do you bother if the other player on track use it or not?! What difference does it make to you?!
(apart from the auto_x drivers, and even those don't really have a valid point - If you think wheels view is advantageous, use it! It's there!!!)

And don't BS me with the equality crap, cause that's the last thing it would be!

Quote from LFSn00b :

And i disagree on this too. Well, usually kb users can't drive well on 1st person views, so they use external.

The rest of the post is fine but that bit was nonsense. How does the controller relate to the view? I played loads of racing games/sims with kb from inside the car, LFS included. I know people who were used to external camera in arcade games but cousdn't get the hang of LFS (their first sim) until they tried an internal camera.

Quote from Falcon140 :

Now i cant race anymore...

I get 2 fps in cockpit......

compared to my 13 in custom...

@GianniC

Agreed completly

If you get 13fps using NFS view surely it must be like a slide show at the start of a race?

That makes me wonder aloud is , if LFS only ever shipped with cockpit view would any of the guys bitching about "the Option of forced cockpit view" play/race LFS at all?

None of the views are super realistic , for along time i used the first person/bumpercam view and still do from time to time, but for me personally the cockpit view is far more rewarding from the perspective of realism and difficulty .

I see the big difference as this, the cockpit view guys are driving LFS for the simulation of car racing and the NFS view guys look at LFS as a game.

I have nfi how driving a car from behind the boot can convey what driving a race car feels like.

Quote from richo :

...
That makes me wonder aloud is , if LFS only ever shipped with cockpit view would any of the guys bitching about "the Option of forced cockpit view" play/race LFS at all?
...

That's the point... If LFS have only cockpit view when I've tried it, it would occupy the same space as nkpro in my PC (0 bytes), and would cost me the same too...

Please Scawen, read this... (with Pics)

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=480683#post480683

Quote from LFSn00b :

well, nearly

Seriously, good luck driving NR2003 or GPL with keyboard. nKp doesn't allow it, iirc. LFS is extraordinarily forgiving to keyboard and mouse users (which is unsurprising since it gets most of its business from word of mouth and demo users who are probably playing their first real sim).

I agree with the view locking and feel it is a good thing but I think it should be so you are restricted that the view must be inside the car. The reason for this is simple...

When things like visible windscreens that can get damaged and so effect visibility you will see forced view come in on most servers to stop people using views that mean you do not suffer the disadvantage. The Auto X need is already clear and shows why the locking is required and more and more reason will in the end make this a regular fixture on servers.

This is the reason NR2003 has hardcore mode where view and graphical detail are locked to give an even playing field. I believe the NR2003 hardcore mode also locks FOV at 65 but I think that is a step too far.

Chase view has BIG advantages over the other views because you are high up so you see further in front and over cars in front of you.

I notice that people are already saying the realism is getting in the way of their enjoyment but LFS has always been hardcore and it has been stated many time that it will get more hardcore because this is the direction the devs want to take it. Recent changes like no reset have highlighted this.

Quote from eRaptor :

That's the point... If LFS have only cockpit view when I've tried it, it would occupy the same space as nkpro in my PC (0 bytes), and would cost me the same too...

All the more space for the NFS series...

Quote from eRaptor :

That's the point... If LFS have only cockpit view when I've tried it, it would occupy the same space as nkpro in my PC (0 bytes), and would cost me the same too...

Imho, honestly, that's really your own loss.

1.- I don't see any problem with the cockpit view
2.- I use it, with a "15 LCD
3.- Out cameras give advantage, just like 3rd person shooters (I.E. You can see at your right while looking front) Why do you think theres a button to look to the sides? use them, please.
4.- Stop crying, cause it's still an option... and with all these loams it'll never be official... pfff
5.- Srry for this, but if hosts force it, its because ppl relate 3rd person with unproffessionals, arcade, kids, etc... its just that =/ nones fault.

I think the word here that is being overlooked, is , SIM, LFS was never made to be a console/arcade game, and i can't say i've seen cars in real life going round my streets with a arm chair strapped to the roof or on the bumper..

The word that seems most overlooked, to me, is "option". I'm in favour of hosts having the option. I don't have any plans at all to force it on any of the servers I'm responsible for, but I'm happy that the servers that do want to be able to force it can now do so. I'd like to see several other options available to hosts so they can host the specific racing formats that they want, too.

I understand the negative reaction that some have had, but they all seem to be ignoring the simple fact that it's an option and it's the server operator's choice. It's not arbitrary. Nobody's lost anything.

The cockpit view is itself far from realism, because of low windows FOV

Was it for a request or not? For me, forcing cockpit view is just nonsence, I think it wasn't thought trough and wonder that Scawen made such a thing.

With usual monitors (low FOV), you see the picture like if you are in the rear seat. The actual FOV of visible outside area is incredibly small, about 1/3 of screen size. For those who use to drive in custom view (i do sometimes BTW), this is a big inconvenience. I don't see any "cheating" in viewing from any point. Of course, someone could raise the POV in MRT to be able to see far, but disabling custom camera solves less problems than makes itself.

I'm pessimistic in this question, and think in many hosts this option will be turned on, due to someone "caring about realism". Saying "choie" at this point makes no sence, since someone chooses for a driver how he/she should drive at the favourite host.

Quote from Gopher04 :

I think the word here that is being overlooked, is , SIM, LFS was never made to be a console/arcade game, and i can't say i've seen cars in real life going round my streets with a arm chair strapped to the roof or on the bumper..

Yeah, I'm concerned about the loss of custom camera. I see that a good many people use a cockpit view but because of their monitor arrangement, or preferred FOV, need to use the custom camera to make a cockpit view functional for them.

[edit] @ Dik Dolan... ROFL!!

Quote from SamH :

Yeah, I'm concerned about the loss of custom camera. I see that a good many people use a cockpit view but because of their monitor arrangement, or preferred FOV, need to use the custom camera to make a cockpit view functional for them.

Yeah, I have just noticed that you can no longer move the eyepoint, this is maybe not a good idea because sometimes the eyepoint in some cars isn't perfect.

I think forced cockpit should at least give people the option to move the eyepoint, even if it's by a small amount, it might help to satisfy those that don't particularly like the idea of driving in the cockpit?.

Quote from danowat :

Yeah, I have just noticed that you can no longer move the eyepoint, this is maybe not a good idea because sometimes the eyepoint in some cars isn't perfect.

I think forced cockpit should at least give people the option to move the eyepoint, even if it's by a small amount, it might help to satisfy those that don't particularly like the idea of driving in the cockpit?.

Yes this is the one concern i have about it, i always use cockpit view and always will, but i do custom move it abit, as the default settings are not good, so maybe Scawen can allow us to have this back some how, even in F1 they build the seating arrangement around the driver to what he prefers, in all sims i use you are allowed to get seat movement..