Fair enough.
Fair enough.
Fair enough.
=]
Yeah, next time I'm in Canada I'm buying Maggot a pint.
[edit: hey you edited your post, now I look silly(er)
]
[edit: hey you edited your post, now I look silly(er)
]Sorry!
To those of you without television, I said "I love Canadians. Straight to the bloody point". I still stand by that
To those of you without television, I said "I love Canadians. Straight to the bloody point". I still stand by that
=)
Hank Hank HANK!!!
You're supposed to be a little more streetwise than that dude.
First off, you posted a link from a CANADIAN paper with RUSSIAN legal experts. Think about that.
Also, Presidents here can't just "make" laws. There's this big process of bills and what not that have to go thru both houses of Congress. Uh, that "law" never happened. They DID make it a crime to protest during Funerals because of these whackos that go to funerals of dead servicemen and basically tell the grieving survivors that their son/daughter/whatever is going to Hell cause God is punishing the US of A.
Even if he could pull that off, it would be struck down by some judge as being unconstitutional faster than you can say Sheehan.
And quoting a poster responding to that "news" thread:
So, if the Democratic congress opposes the war, can this happen to them?
I know it's cold most of the time in Winnipeg and there's not much to do, maybe it's cabin fever mixed with left wing delusions????
You're supposed to be a little more streetwise than that dude.
First off, you posted a link from a CANADIAN paper with RUSSIAN legal experts. Think about that.
Also, Presidents here can't just "make" laws. There's this big process of bills and what not that have to go thru both houses of Congress. Uh, that "law" never happened. They DID make it a crime to protest during Funerals because of these whackos that go to funerals of dead servicemen and basically tell the grieving survivors that their son/daughter/whatever is going to Hell cause God is punishing the US of A.
Even if he could pull that off, it would be struck down by some judge as being unconstitutional faster than you can say Sheehan.
And quoting a poster responding to that "news" thread:
So, if the Democratic congress opposes the war, can this happen to them?
I know it's cold most of the time in Winnipeg and there's not much to do, maybe it's cabin fever mixed with left wing delusions????
Yaay! somebody finally loves me?
Well Racer old buddy, that's why I said "you decide" in my OP. It was just an illustration of what the current Whitehouse residents try to get away with constantly but which never gets reported - not in the "Liberal" media anyway (saying the US media's liberal is like saying the Taliban are moderate, peace-loving Muslims). There's plenty of other stuff in their arsenal (see below). Besides, we changed the subject ages ago, Racer. Where we ya? 
Disregarding the truth (or untruth) of the article, with the "signing statements" that George is fond of using, coupled with the laughably-named PATRIOT Act and all its rights-stripping provisions that even Nixon wouldn't have dared to try and use, and the presidential veto, George can pretty much do what we wants when it comes to enacting legislation and he barely needs the kind of legislation discussed in the first article anyway. Then, with a Supreme Court stacked with old-school Repubs, friends of George Senior and other assorted Bushites, he's almost got himself a clean slate (and when I say "him" I mean Cheney, who's clearly the Palpatine in this Sith-relationship). To ice the cake there's a dissapointingly spineless majority Democratic Congress who are, despite their superior numbers, just as happy to bend over backwards to accomodate George's fantasies (i.e. the ludicrous "troop surge" to name just one) as are the Republicans themselves.
Now, just a quick note about those whack-jobs that show up to soldier funerals and heckle the mourners. I recently saw a quite disturbing doco that featured them (I believe Australia's Andrew Denton interviewed them). They do indeed think the US is being punished for its tolerance of gays (among other things) and they scare the crap outa me. I can't remember the name of their little cult (thankfully it's still little) but they're like some insane Christian Taliban and they need to be dealt with just as harshly...
dawesdust, I was talking to MAGGOT, but I guess I can share some platonic man-love.
Disregarding the truth (or untruth) of the article, with the "signing statements" that George is fond of using, coupled with the laughably-named PATRIOT Act and all its rights-stripping provisions that even Nixon wouldn't have dared to try and use, and the presidential veto, George can pretty much do what we wants when it comes to enacting legislation and he barely needs the kind of legislation discussed in the first article anyway. Then, with a Supreme Court stacked with old-school Repubs, friends of George Senior and other assorted Bushites, he's almost got himself a clean slate (and when I say "him" I mean Cheney, who's clearly the Palpatine in this Sith-relationship). To ice the cake there's a dissapointingly spineless majority Democratic Congress who are, despite their superior numbers, just as happy to bend over backwards to accomodate George's fantasies (i.e. the ludicrous "troop surge" to name just one) as are the Republicans themselves.
Now, just a quick note about those whack-jobs that show up to soldier funerals and heckle the mourners. I recently saw a quite disturbing doco that featured them (I believe Australia's Andrew Denton interviewed them). They do indeed think the US is being punished for its tolerance of gays (among other things) and they scare the crap outa me. I can't remember the name of their little cult (thankfully it's still little) but they're like some insane Christian Taliban and they need to be dealt with just as harshly...
dawesdust, I was talking to MAGGOT, but I guess I can share some platonic man-love.
I guess someone has to.
I think Bullshit did an episode on them, veteran bikers started going to funerals to try and block the nut jobs off from the grieving families. What makes it worse is then men who die so they can host their little tea parties are the people who died so they CAN have their little tea parties.
Bullshit should be classed as a community service program and given federal funding Except it wouldn't get any of George's "faith-based" dollars - not after the awesome hatchet-job they did on the bible. I guess I'll see Penn & Teller in hell and we can have a nice chat and a cuppa :bananadea
Except it wouldn't get any of George's "faith-based" dollars - not after the awesome hatchet-job they did on the bible. I guess I'll see Penn & Teller in hell and we can have a nice chat and a cuppa :bananadeaas much as i love penn & teller not having seen their westboro episode i like prefer the chasers view on them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8cN2pB3MCE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8cN2pB3MCE
Westboro Baptist Church, that's the name of those sociopaths! And it was indeed The Chaser, not Andrew Denton (though his doco on US evangelists was damn good). Thanks Shotglass :up:
Bless The Chaser, they may be utter tools sometimes but they've turned political satire into an extreme sport, especially when hitting on Westboro nutters...and they actually do get federal funding because they're on the ABC (the state-owned Australian Broadcasting Corp). I love it - our government is paying these guys to hang shit on them. That's better than free speech - it's free speech with a paycheque and benefits
Bless The Chaser, they may be utter tools sometimes but they've turned political satire into an extreme sport, especially when hitting on Westboro nutters...and they actually do get federal funding because they're on the ABC (the state-owned Australian Broadcasting Corp). I love it - our government is paying these guys to hang shit on them. That's better than free speech - it's free speech with a paycheque and benefits
Actually I went to the White house site
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news ... s/2007/07/20070717-3.html
I think it's really meant to go after so-called "charities" that support in some way or another insurgent activities in Iraq. Domestic dissenters are safe as long as they don't throw a firebomb or something. The wording sucks, but if they were to try to twist its meaning to go after dissenters
or whatever, they'd get nailed for it real quick.
You know as much as I support the "war on terror" and all our soldiers over in Iraq & Afghanistan, I wish we could just leave Iraq. I don't think any of those people have any intention of ever becoming a rational thinking nation. And I don't think any one in command positions has any real clue to get things settled down over there. As far as our leaders go, I really don't think that they even almost paid attention to the lessons that could've been learned from Yugoslavia - oops it ain't there anymore.
Personally, I think they are handling it ALL wrong. These "insurgents" and "Fundamentalists" and private militias are nothing more than street gangs. Heavily armed street gangs, but gang bangers nonetheless. Maybe if Law Enforcement agencies were to take over instead of Military forces, things would go alot better. In fact, instead of going after them as being enemy combatants, they should go after them on like the RICCO statutes (organized crime law that really sucks for mob guys). Get all the politcal and religious nonsense outta the way and treat them for what they are - criminals. This enemy combatant status or whatever gives them some sort of legitamcy. With that status, they can call themselves freedom fighters against the oppressor instead of thugs wanting a piece of the action.
But what do I know? I'm just a dumb redneck.
And that whacko cult... Is "judge not lest thee be judged" in the Bible they read? LOL If God wanted to punish us for something, I think being tolerant to gays would be way way down the list.
ROFL Ithink that when one of them dies, we should go to their funeral and play "Funeral for a Friend" by Sir (?) Elton.
Well I better go. I'm getting way to wreckless with the Quotation marks key
Oh wait... the media here is niether liberal or conservative. They only really care about the ratings.
I think if "we" left Iraq alone (as noone has actually bothered to do since Great Britain consolidated it from three separate states during the time of Lawrence of Arabia so that BP could have easy access to the black gold) they would definitely sort themselves out. It coudl take years, but it took years for America to get sorted after the Revolution and, later, the Civil War. Same with France, same with Germany, same with any country that's suffered a huge upheaval. It's simply not the job of the US or any other country to tell Iraq or anyone else how to run their nation and I think it's borderline racism to think Iraqis couldn't figure out how they want to run their own country in time. They're humans just like us and want the same things as we do. The reason Iraq is ruined by civil war right now is a direct result of the US invasion and occupation, which stirred up old hatreds and, in the resulting chaos caused by that invasion and the disintegration of the country from the top levels of government right down to the guys who pick up the garbage, allowed them to run wild and free through the streets.
I think what the US (by "US" I mean a few dozen rich, white folk with mates in DC) is afraid of is that Iraq, if left alone, would turn into a Muslim theocracy like its neighbour Iran or simply a truly independent state, and that they would have the audacity to think their material wealth (i.e. the runny black stuff) should be used for the benefit of Iran and not opened wide to enrich foreign companies (precisely the reason they're scared of Chavez's Venezuela). If it's about democracy for Iraq and not merely about controlling the price of oil (trust me, this is in no way about cheap oil for the Hummers back home, it's exactly the opposite), why isn't the US removing the Saud Royal Family, who run the most tyrannical and repressive Islamic regime outside of the old Taliban-run Afghanistan? Couldn't possibly be because the Sauds have been long-time Bush allies and business partners (and the controlling force behind OPEC)... It then begs the question why no US government in history has ever taken the Sauds to task for their continual, brutal oppression, including their penchant for cutting off heads in public or forbidding dancing or prohibiting women from driving cars or leaving their houses without a male escort...
You're right about the media, it's about the dollars. It's just that that the neo-cons (and therefore big business) have all the cash, so FOX and NBC and everyone else are chasing them around and sucking up like crazy
I think what the US (by "US" I mean a few dozen rich, white folk with mates in DC) is afraid of is that Iraq, if left alone, would turn into a Muslim theocracy like its neighbour Iran or simply a truly independent state, and that they would have the audacity to think their material wealth (i.e. the runny black stuff) should be used for the benefit of Iran and not opened wide to enrich foreign companies (precisely the reason they're scared of Chavez's Venezuela). If it's about democracy for Iraq and not merely about controlling the price of oil (trust me, this is in no way about cheap oil for the Hummers back home, it's exactly the opposite), why isn't the US removing the Saud Royal Family, who run the most tyrannical and repressive Islamic regime outside of the old Taliban-run Afghanistan? Couldn't possibly be because the Sauds have been long-time Bush allies and business partners (and the controlling force behind OPEC)... It then begs the question why no US government in history has ever taken the Sauds to task for their continual, brutal oppression, including their penchant for cutting off heads in public or forbidding dancing or prohibiting women from driving cars or leaving their houses without a male escort...
You're right about the media, it's about the dollars. It's just that that the neo-cons (and therefore big business) have all the cash, so FOX and NBC and everyone else are chasing them around and sucking up like crazy
May I advice you a book to read ? Over 1400 pages, made by a great reporter, objective and containing pure the truth, mostly seen with his real eyes.
It made me a bit wiser. But it made me mostly think about everything, and that is the core of everything. To think. Just as (some of us) do in this topic. At the end, it is all about money, power and... repeating our history. "Iraqi Freedom", this new law. It all happend so many times before. 9/11, if we all had our eyes opened and used our braincells, it was even predictable. Yes, even 9/11. Yes, even the disastrous outcome of the 2003 invasion.
History tells us the future.
And it doesn't look like getting brighter.
It made me a bit wiser. But it made me mostly think about everything, and that is the core of everything. To think. Just as (some of us) do in this topic. At the end, it is all about money, power and... repeating our history. "Iraqi Freedom", this new law. It all happend so many times before. 9/11, if we all had our eyes opened and used our braincells, it was even predictable. Yes, even 9/11. Yes, even the disastrous outcome of the 2003 invasion.
History tells us the future.
And it doesn't look like getting brighter.
I'm still yet to see that episode, unfortunately, but I think that is in season 3 so I will watch it next time I visiting my buddy Darryl since he has that season. While I'm technically not an Atheist, I still take pleasure seeing someone shit on the bible. I don't know why... Guess I'll party with you in hell, Hank... if there be such a place.
from the clip on youtube of the bible episode it appears theyre mostly focusing on those that take the bible literally which no one in their right frame of mind would do anyway
It is in season 2, episode 6
Dang. I coulda sworn he said it was in his season... Maybe he has season 2... It's got the life coaching, conspiracies and gun control. Is that the same season?
Getting back on topic...
Oh really? People have ALREADY been arrested for peaceable protest. And perhaps you don't know about the new "free speech zones" that are in effect around the country. Details of the hundreds who were arrested for protesting the war and the Republican party can be found here: http://www.nyclu.org/rncdocs/
Note that over 75% of these people had their cases dismissed outright, which goes to show that they were NOT breaking any laws at all. New laws, like the one in the OP, will ensure that these arrests are "legal", even though they are unconstitutional.
This country is going down the crapper and US civil liberties are being stripped at an alarming rate. So far, I've only seen one candidate for the 2008 election who even wants to restore our liberties. And, shock of shocks, he's a Republican (and, assuming he gets nominated, he'll get the vote of this registered Democrat).
Oh really? People have ALREADY been arrested for peaceable protest. And perhaps you don't know about the new "free speech zones" that are in effect around the country. Details of the hundreds who were arrested for protesting the war and the Republican party can be found here: http://www.nyclu.org/rncdocs/
Note that over 75% of these people had their cases dismissed outright, which goes to show that they were NOT breaking any laws at all. New laws, like the one in the OP, will ensure that these arrests are "legal", even though they are unconstitutional.
This country is going down the crapper and US civil liberties are being stripped at an alarming rate. So far, I've only seen one candidate for the 2008 election who even wants to restore our liberties. And, shock of shocks, he's a Republican (and, assuming he gets nominated, he'll get the vote of this registered Democrat).
It has two episodes about religion/holy based matters in season three (gun control and such are season 3), but the bible is season 2.
I don't understand this, and why the US request the political stand point of Europeans. As far as I am aware politics is a completely anonymous system, as such the only people who know who you voted for is you. I've never had to register which side of the fence I sit on, just that I want to vote.
Unfortunately, it doesn't really work that way. Oh, how I wish it did. The two party system totally sucks.
That sucks, sort of takes away the whole point of having voting booths. The idea of no one knowing who you votes for is so it cannot be held against you. So God only knows how the US Govt. expects ours to tell them something they do not know.
I suppose technically we have a two party system here, you can vote for other parties, but there are only ever two who have a chance of getting in, Labour or Conservatives.
Naturally the best sounding is the Monster Raving Loony Party, purely because the representative for them here died and in his will he appointed his pet cat to take over, so if they do get in my town will be run by a cat. Guess it can't be much worse then anyone else who's running.
Australia has the same sort of two-party system here. There are a few others and sometimes they win a few seats here and there, but the only ones with a shot are the big two: Labour and the Liberal/National coalition. They're pretty close together ideologically, but the difference between them is more noticeable than, say, the difference between the Democrats and Republicans in the US, who seem to be moving closer together all the time (probably more accurate to say that the Dems are just moving closer to the Republicans :shrug. So, our election days are all about choosing the lesser of two evils. You go to the local church or school, into the cardboard cutout booth with your ballot paper and your government-issued pencil (none of these farcical and highly suspect voting machine shenanigans the hapless US voters have to put up with) and you try and decide - not who's going to screw you the least, but who's going to screw you in the most gentle fashion. Then you sigh, give up, draw a big cock & balls on the ballot, fold it up, push it into the box and walk out feeling like a ten-year old
. So, our election days are all about choosing the lesser of two evils. You go to the local church or school, into the cardboard cutout booth with your ballot paper and your government-issued pencil (none of these farcical and highly suspect voting machine shenanigans the hapless US voters have to put up with) and you try and decide - not who's going to screw you the least, but who's going to screw you in the most gentle fashion. Then you sigh, give up, draw a big cock & balls on the ballot, fold it up, push it into the box and walk out feeling like a ten-year old A most democratic gesture!
Another nail in the coffin of Free Speech? You decide.
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