The online racing simulator
Quote from mrodgers :Nikon and Canon have the best new lens selection. They are the easiest to aquire as well at least where I am (I don't even know where I would buy a Sony or other around here...) But, Sony bought out Minolta and it will mount any old Minolta lenses you could find on the used marken, as far as I know.

You're right re: Nikon and Canon having the best selection of new zooms, however it's quite easy to make the argument that Olympus and especially Pentax have far better selections of new prime lenses. It all depends on what you want out of your system. The smaller players are also generally cheaper to get into.

The Sony dSLRs will mount any Minolta Maxxum (AF) lenses, but not the older MD or MC manual lenses. This is where Pentax shines, in that their K-mount hasn't changed a bit since it was introduced in the 60s. I.e., you can mount ANY K-mount lens from the past 40 years natively. If you don't mind manually focusing, Pentax has by far the widest range of lenses available, in total (and many of them are available for <$20).

Sorry to play the fanboy, but I gotta get a word in there for the underdogs.
What you would be suggested in a photography forum to do is, pick the camera up in your hands and try it out to see if you like it.

Image quality wise, there is very little difference between Sony, Olympus, Pentax, Canon, Nikon, Fuji (do they still have a dSLR?) or any other when comparing the compatible models. I've seen outstanding shots from the Nikon D40 and terrible shots from a Nikon D700 ($500 compared to $3000+ cameras.) I have shots from my 2mp Fuji point and shoot that are miles better in quality than my coworker's $1500 worth (at the time he purchased) of XTi and equipment.

What it boils down to is, there are differences between comparable models, but the differences don't amount to much. Maybe camera X has great image quality up to ISO 1600 and camera B can be pushed to ISO 3200 with the same quality, but the biggest difference is in the person pushing the button. Thus, it really comes down to the ergonomics when deciding between like models. Just look at Don's previous posts of his rally photos. They are astounding and shot with a Rebel XT (300D?). I've seen (rich) people posting on photo forums with shots that come from $5000 cameras that are terrible. The camera really has very little to do with it.
Quote from mrodgers :What you would be suggested in a photography forum to do is, pick the camera up in your hands and try it out to see if you like it.

Image quality wise, there is very little difference between Sony, Olympus, Pentax, Canon, Nikon, Fuji (do they still have a dSLR?) or any other when comparing the compatible models. I've seen outstanding shots from the Nikon D40 and terrible shots from a Nikon D700 ($500 compared to $3000+ cameras.) I have shots from my 2mp Fuji point and shoot that are miles better in quality than my coworker's $1500 worth (at the time he purchased) of XTi and equipment.

What it boils down to is, there are differences between comparable models, but the differences don't amount to much. Maybe camera X has great image quality up to ISO 1600 and camera B can be pushed to ISO 3200 with the same quality, but the biggest difference is in the person pushing the button. Thus, it really comes down to the ergonomics when deciding between like models. Just look at Don's previous posts of his rally photos. They are astounding and shot with a Rebel XT (300D?). I've seen (rich) people posting on photo forums with shots that come from $5000 cameras that are terrible. The camera really has very little to do with it.

very very true
Yeah, ergonomics and build quality are also very important. Very good idea to hold them all in-hand before making a choice.
I've stopped recommending hardware to people, because it always comes out as "buy Nikon!"

My brother's bought two A350s. The first one was about £70 cheaper than the 2nd. I'm not sure why the price is going up, but it's possibly because Sony realised that they'd missed their price-point initially.

I had a moderately good look at the A350. It has some nice features and it's nice and light - especially compared with my brick. Ergonomically it's not in the least offensive, but I wouldn't have much faith in it working if I dropped it or got it wet (and it rains buttloads where I live). Perhaps that's because it's very light, I dunno.. it just felt very "consumer level" and not all that sturdy.
and my advice would be buy canon

no, seriously - i would be worried to go the Pentax/Sony/Olympus way - why? because I dont know any "pro" who shoots with either of these. All "pros" (and im talking mainly about rally photographers here) tend to use either Canon or Nikon. Plus I'm perfectly happy with my Canon and have no reason to swap.

And attached is my favourite image (hint: white lens = canon)
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lol im a canon guy too, i mean i wouldnt say no if someone offered me a d3x

but to be honest there isnt much between canon and nikon really
Thanks for the advice guys

Quote from mrodgers :What you would be suggested in a photography forum to do is, pick the camera up in your hands and try it out to see if you like it.

As it happens, I have about an hour to kill tommorrow in a town that has a Sony shop, so I might head there to have a look, and see if I still like the camera when it hasn't got a fancy web page surrounding it.

As for Canon, their website wants to make me jump off a cliff due to it's dullness, but I will take a look anyway
Quote from Don :and my advice would be buy canon

no, seriously - i would be worried to go the Pentax/Sony/Olympus way - why? because I dont know any "pro" who shoots with either of these. All "pros" (and im talking mainly about rally photographers here) tend to use either Canon or Nikon. Plus I'm perfectly happy with my Canon and have no reason to swap.

And attached is my favourite image (hint: white lens = canon)

Not sure what it matters what "pros" shoot with, anyway. As others have stated, it's not the gear that makes the shot, in 99% of cases... it's the photographer.

Pros shoot with Canon or Nikon mainly because:

a) Canon and Nikon each make ridiculously expensive pro level zooms that the average consumer will never touch let alone use
b) Canon and Nikon advertise heavily and sponsor ($$$) pro photographers and their agencies
c) Canon and Nikon have much better pro service options (priority repair, loaner lenses, and so on), which again the common consumer will never need or have access to

That said, there are pros who shoot with non-Canikon gear. For example, Benjamin Kanarek is a prominent Canadian fashion photographer based in France who uses largely Pentax gear for his magazine shoots. There are examples for Sony (especially since the advent of the A700), Olympus, Sigma, and so on as well.

Canon and Nikon have certain undeniable advantages for pros, as mentioned above, but for the average shooter they can often be more costly for the same or lesser reward.
Quote from DeadWolfBones :
Canon and Nikon have certain undeniable advantages for pros, as mentioned above, but for the average shooter they can often be more costly for the same or lesser reward.

After taking a look through the Canon website, I can see what you mean - There is only one camera that is realistically within my budget

Edit: An also, I don't have any plans to be blowing vast sums of (or any) money on additional lenses in the future, because to be honest, I don't usually have a spare 400 quid hanging around and I don't need a vast collection of lenses to the extent that would warrant me spending all my money on them...
Don't get me wrong... in terms of image quality it's nearly impossible to go wrong with a modern dSLR from any of the current manufacturers. It's mostly down to design quirks, ergonomics, build quality, and the available lens lines/reverse compatibility availability to make your decision. Aka personal preference. It's just frustrating at times that so many people have only heard of Canon/Nikon, and will only consider them for that reason.

I'd certainly shoot Canon if I were given one, and same for Nikon, Olympus, Sony, etc. I chose Pentax because at the time I bought into the system it suited me best, and was the best deal. I continue to shoot Pentax because I love the availability of older glass, the quality of their current prime lens lineup, and their risk-taking with new designs (see the K-7). But that's just my preference. ;]
Quote from JO53PHS :Do you think THIS is good value for money. It's a rip at £529, but Dell Business can do it including VAT and Shipping for £416 . I've read a few reviews and this seems to be a good camera. I was also drawn to it because it was the highest rated in the £350-500 range in a list of 2309230* DSLRs

As an A700 owner I may be biased, but as mentioned above, there's so little to differentiate image quality between most cameras that it really comes down to ergonomics, lens selection, and personal preference. The Sony ergonomics are carried over from Minolta, and are simply superb. I've used Canons and Nikons since adopting the Sony DSLRs, and while they have their merits, I've instantly hated their ergonomics. So a vote here for the Sony.

Also depends on what you like to do. Stick a high quality wide-ish lens on that A350, keep the ISO low for bright days, and you'll get some remarkably crisp, sharp, detailed images, with an IQ arguably superior to any other APS-C camera. But if your idea of photography is arty, low light shots with high ISO, or sports and fast moving things, then I'd steer you towards a Canikon.

Quote from SamH :I wouldn't have much faith in it working if I dropped it or got it wet (and it rains buttloads where I live). Perhaps that's because it's very light, I dunno.. it just felt very "consumer level" and not all that sturdy.

That's because it is consumer level, and it is plastic. Like most camera families, if you want all-alloy construction you need to move up to the A700/40D tier.

Don't be deceived by plastic bodies though. I once dropped my Sony A100 from neck height onto a concrete carpark floor. Lens was twisted on the mount, one of the shoulder dials was badly scuffed, but after removing and reattaching the lens, it was fine. I was astounded that such a seemingly flimsy plastic body could withstand such a sharp impact, and remember it has a moveable image sensor for image stabilisation, which survived too.
I can't recommend this bit enough: Get a cheap point and shoot that allows manual settings. Mess with them, learn them.

Don't spend hundreds on a dslr and shoot in auto, when you could take pictures juat as good with a point and shoot.

And I agree with what every one is saying. Go to a real camera shop and they will probably let you test them out. Get a feel for each one, see how you like going through the menus etc etc. You will find something in your budget you will love.

All the major brands offer great products. Don't forget to check used. My Fuji S1 6mp can take pictures just as good as any new dslr. If you can snag a great dealon an older dslr outfit with a few lenses for the same price as a newer body it is something to seriously consider.

On a side note, mrodgers, do you post on thephotoforum too? I swear I've seen that same username.
Quote from Don :And attached is my favourite image (hint: white lens = canon)

Pffft.... Bunch of noobs. Half are pointing one way and the other half are aiming the other way. They obviously have no idea where the action is.

Quote from STROBE :....then I'd steer you towards a Canikon.

Canikon, ha ha! I like that!

Quote from MattxMosh :On a side note, mrodgers, do you post on thephotoforum too? I swear I've seen that same username.

Thephotoforum? What's that? Is it a good forum to join?

Hmm, that bastard on Thephotoforum! His avatar looks amazingly like my favorite photo of my dog!

Quote from mrodgers :

Hmm, that bastard on Thephotoforum! His avatar looks amazingly like my favorite photo of my dog!


What an odd coincidence.


Also random crap of my huge wife from the other day.
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Quote from MattxMosh :Also random crap of my huge wife from the other day.

"Huge" in a good way. Congratulations.

Ok, fess up now. Who are you over on thephotoforum?

I also frequent the digital-photography-school forum, but I don't keep up too much there. I'm addicted to forums and I have too many to keep up with them all.
Quote from mrodgers :"Huge" in a good way. Congratulations.

Ok, fess up now. Who are you over on thephotoforum?

I also frequent the digital-photography-school forum, but I don't keep up too much there. I'm addicted to forums and I have too many to keep up with them all.

I just joined there like a month ago. I used the same username. I always do, ha. Same here, I'm trying to cut back on my forum usage. Eats up a lot of time.
Quote from MattxMosh :

And I agree with what every one is saying. Go to a real camera shop and they will probably let you test them out. Get a feel for each one, see how you like going through the menus etc etc. You will find something in your budget you will love.


So I go to the Sony shop, just because I happen to have an hour to kill in a town with a Sony shop...

They have the a350 on display, and sure enough.. the man takes it from the cabinet, puts in the battery, and hands it to me. I switch it on, and a lovely message greets me "Battery exhausted". :rolleyes:

And then he tells me that's the only battery he has :doh:

And then he goes on to give me the brochure for the a200, but I only realise this once I am on the way home. :doh::doh::doh:

Silly salesman.
this is why you shouldnt by sony stuff really lol bacause even their salesmen are idiots

the only good thing sony make is the playstation.

although canon are better they are very crafty, at the mph show there was a canon stand and having herd about dslrs from the likes of samh lol i draggged my dad there to prove to him how good dslrs are. the rep showed us the camera and some of it feature but before taking too many pics desided to change the lens to severl thousand pounds worth of l series is usm lens knowing that the kit lens isnt great. but still it convinced my dad especially as his entax point and shot couldnt take one not blurry picture in the halls at the nec and the 400d had no trouble
Quote from JO53PHS :So I go to the Sony shop, just because I happen to have an hour to kill in a town with a Sony shop...

They have the a350 on display, and sure enough.. the man takes it from the cabinet, puts in the battery, and hands it to me. I switch it on, and a lovely message greets me "Battery exhausted". :rolleyes:

And then he tells me that's the only battery he has :doh:

And then he goes on to give me the brochure for the a200, but I only realise this once I am on the way home. :doh::doh::doh:

Silly salesman.

Sounds to me like you went to a Sony Centre. That's your first mistake.

Sony Centres are, in fact, not part of Sony at all. They're all private franchises, and while some might be brilliant (although I admit, based also on my own experiences, this is highly unlikely), it's also possible for them to be utter shite. Find an independent camera shop or even a decent sized dept store and have a play there. Sony Centre staff have zero expertise or knowledge about their products, they tend to be pure salesmen. As such, whenever I happen to find myself in a Sony Centre, I consume as much time as possible and get them as excited as possible ("Have you got an A900, CZ24-70 lens and the 900's vertical grip in stock? I'm itching to buy one"), then saunter out having "changed" your mind.

Quote from james12s :this is why you shouldnt by sony stuff really lol bacause even their salesmen are idiots

the only good thing sony make is the playstation.

although canon are better...

Well, thanks for your pearls of wisdom on this topic. Obviously, everyone should go and buy a Canon. :rolleyes:
A few unashamedly touristy snaps from me, which will all be rubbish because they were taken on a rubbish Sony, and everyone knows the only good thing Sony makes is the playstation.

One of the more interesting show gardens at the Chelsea Flower Show



A quick'n'dirty destauration job of some, err, blue flowers (as you can tell, I'm a f*cking genius when it comes to gardening)



No surprises, Canary Wharf



Doesn't even really need explaining, does it?



Because Canons are better than my rubbish Sony, I didn't take this shot handheld at night after a few beers and the rubbish built-in image stabilisation certainly didn't help it come out superbly sharp at 1/4s exposure


And looking back the other way, at the National Gallery
A few from recent weeks:























strobe the, but canon is better bit was about the salesmen not about the cameras, that statement was how the canon salesment at least have a working battery in the camera but the are crafty. i admit i am a fan of canon but im not a canon fanboy!!!


and as for the only good sony bit, the cameras may be good fine and reiable but i know from personal experiance and the experiances of people i know that sony are not the most relaiable brand alot of the time
Before I got my A200, I tried the A300 (essentially A200 with LiveView), A200 and the D40. With 18-70 (I think) kit lenses on all of them in equal conditions and settings, there was no noticable difference in quality. The D40 only has a 6mpx sensor though, which doesn't really affect the perceived image quality but still gives you less material to work with than the Sony 10.2mpx sensor. Another reason I decided for the A200 was the AF, the D40 body does not have an AF motor and the motor built into the kit lense is slower than the one in the Sony body. And finally, the most significant reason, I own a few decent Minolta lenses

With SuperSteadyShot on almost all the time (which I don't use that much anymore) and flash with AF support flash and red eye reduction on 50% of the time, my A200 did over 1020 photos on one charge, the D40 managed a respectable 860 with the flash on about 50%.

The D40 (and probably all other Nikons, only a few Sonys) has some nice features for beginners though, most notably the on-screen help and the very simple automatic modes, on the Sony there's still a lot that needs tweaking in every mode, such as the Dynamic Range Optimizer. The button layout is also slightly more "entry level" friendly, or rather point&click-to-dslr-transition friendly, the playback and delete buttons are on the right side for quick review and deleting whereas the Sony preserves the right side (right thumb area) for the fine-tuning of your current shot.

As for the build quality, the display on the A300 feels fragile and it probably is. The bodies all feel good though, I prefer the Sonys over the D40 because the D40 has a more "plasticy" feel to it, it's the kind of plastic-ness that gives me sweaty hands in no time. I don't get that with the Sony but apart from that, the ergonomics are the same.

Comparing bodies by what you think would happen to them if you dropped them strikes me as a silly idea. No cam body takes it well and, more importantly, it's the lens you really have to be worried about.

All in all it took me about 2000 shots to get familiar with the camera to the extend that I can now set it up to give me the exact result I wanted. That might sound like a lot but it really is not, photography is addictive and things you never noticed before are suddenly interesting through the viewfinder

Oh and about the Minolta lenses on Sonys, keep in mind that the sensors are smaller than 35mm film, you'll have to take the crop factor into account. I think it's 1.5 for all current alphas, i.e. an AF 70-210 is really a 105-315

I'll post some pics later

Camera Showoff
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