Becky and gang. Firstly, I think you are doing a great job.

But having just spent a few hours ctra'ing two things have just really frustrated me. Now I know you have a very rigid aim and structure that you want in CTRA and I commend that. But I like to compete and get rewarded for that competing if I do well. I think coming sixth is pretty reasonable. I am never gunna be an alien and I generally doing my own setting up so at best I'm playing catch up. Now, my point (going back to my sixth place) The server changed tracks, which was slightly annoying in itself because I was just fine fettling my setup (This is fox by the way), and when in changed I was placed on pole. Dunno why, my track record with S/S is not great. But there I was on pole. I knew I was never gunna win and I held on to forth untill the final lap where a small backmarker/ Racing incedent occured, dropped me to sixth. Ok. Thats cool. Still a points haul. Score board comes up. I get nuffin. 1st place 14 pts, guy behind me 2 points. Me. Zip, zero. A big fat nothing.

I don't think thats right. I know you have tied the points to best performance and I am sure my license status and the fact I slipped places mean that I scored no points. But I'm a plodder. I don't have the time to get Alien at this game. I want to race and score points and those few points that a low finish gives is enough for me to keep interested. I am (I think) A good, conciderate racer who is generally content to mix it with the mid field, your system is leaving guys like me behind in that we can't progress.

I mean I will be back, don't worry and I'll keep plugging away becuase that's what I'm like. It's just a little peculiar when the guy behind you gets points and you don't. Not even a little number one just to say well done. I just found it very frustrating.

And the other thing was that just after that my connection decided to bum out just as the race was restarting, typical, I thought. Reconnected with the race started, that's cool. I am an avocater of no first lap joining, but on Aston North I was gunna be waiting too long and after the no points thing I threw in the towel and went GTR instead. only one other guy on the server. Pottering around. Cool. Got out in me car, FFB packed up. Sometimes fixed by hoping cars. Switched to one of the others, Pit Lane Closed, car being repaired. Switched back, same deal. Again I understand that in a full race you don't want people messing around with cars but on an empty server with 2 laps of Kyoto Long to go untill our man finishes .. . . A very frustrating night on CTRA.

just my thoughts. Probs said everywhere else. But hey.


Still. Loving your work.

If this is on Single Seater 1, then you may never score points. Becky, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that it's very hard for higher-licensed racers to score points on lower-tier servers, to encourage them to race on the higher tiers.

When I race on CTRA-X I tend to go to Race 2, and I manage to pick up the odd point here and there. I'm by no means alien, and I spend 3 out of 4 weeks working away from home (usually out of the country!). Similarly, I have very little time to practise LFS and even less now CTRA-X has launched.

You seem to have stumbled on an unfortunate set of consequences. The races have been changed (restricted mid-race join, etc) to help deal with the poor driving standards on the lower tier servers. While we could set it back, I'm not sure Becky would want to to help out with your dodgy wheel problems.

Better luck next time.

In fairness we're not actually responsible for most of what happened to you last night, sorry you had a bad day.

Regarding lap time, as i've said elsewhere we are going to introduce a new system soon for those who are finding the licence progress tough so that they still have something to race for, and there will be winners for every licence category and lap time wont be worth a single point.

Will that new system be completely seperate from the current system? I know you'll probably just say something like "Just wait and see :-p" but I'm curious because I'm finally beginning to score some points in the current system and progressing - albeit slowly - towards Silver. I, too, found the new points system way too tough in the beginning but I spent more time practising and getting a bit faster and now I'm reaping the fruits of that effort so now I'm more like "leave the system as it is, it's fine :-)". No doubt that the new 108% margin helped me score some points now and then, too.

I totaly agree with Obsolum, it's good to stimulate people to practice and getting faster than they tought was possible.
With average driving you won't get far in competitive racing (real or sim)
If people don't have the time or don't want to spent time upgrating their driving skills than it's to bad, just like real live.
If people aren't fast enough to score points on server1 why do they want to earn a licence for server2 ?
A secondary point system (maybe) is a good idea for people who are not fast but still want to be rewarded.

PS. If you finish in the top 3 and didn't get any points (108% rule) that only means that you are driving against other slow or bad drivers, so why get points for that?

Well they want to run other cars, that perhaps they feel, that they are 'better' in. Virtually every time this is not the case though and they are just as off pace as with the slower cars.

It's supposed to be tough, otherwise whats the point of having licenses to gain entry for league races if the licenses only mean that you had a long time on one particular server. It does not take long for a competitent driver to obtain new licenses. For the people that don't upgrade there is a reason, other than 'it's too hard'. Your not the caliber of driver thats wanted for the next license.

I do fully realise that my wheel going FFB Awol is nothing to do with the System, it's just odd that I can't join when there is only one other car on track. It's not like there is even a race I sit back and enjoy watching. But that is your system, it's cool. Just frustratingly cool.

As for the 108% and all that point scoring requirements how often do you see the sixth place guy in F1 not scoring points because he was outside 108% of the fastest lap. I have watched these fast guys on the CTRA servers and all they need to do is pull out a couple of stunning laps, burn thier tyres to shreds and coast the rest of the way to the finish (Ok,Ok, slight exageration I know, but humour me). I don't race like that, I cant race like that. For me, the setup is all about getting a car to respond to you, not to cook the tyres and to get generally solid lap times. Which I can generally do. Prehaps my racing style is more suited to longer races when the fast guys have blown up their tyres and I can make up ground through consistency and tyre conservation.

Prehaps a look at the median timings for servers will show that the majority of people (Even hugely experianced racers) will consistently fall outside the 108% mark except on their favorite combo's that they are well set up for.

You have stated that you are changing the system slighty so you obviously recognise that there are issues, and like I said, I'm still going to be racing because I will get better and faster and start scoring points. But Nothing for sixth place. Whilst behind logged more points?

Obviously this is all dependant on your target market. And if you want only full time Sim Racers with all the kit and caboodle and uber geekness and inside knowledge of certain indiosyncracies that will give them that edge then alls fine and dandy. But if you want to maintain your position as the largest sim racing community then you possible need to reevaluate your core objectives otherwise people will get bored and wander of. Possible your counter is that is is exactly that that seperates the wheat from the chaff. And in this benign dictatorship I have no bones about that as a stated objective, I am sure you will have countless members who can and will make the grade. But you could loose the title of 'largest'.

But if your cool, then I'm cool.

Although possible not today because I've been working in the sun all day and have possible given myself heatstroke. But, se la vie.

108% is a huge margin, once you are comfortable with a car/track combination you should be easily within 108%, no matter what the setup is.

Quote :

As for the 108% and all that point scoring requirements how often do you see the sixth place guy in F1 not scoring points because he was outside 108% of the fastest lap.

Never, because you need to be within 107% to qualify for race entry...

Haha, touché Becky!

Funnybear, I totally understand your frustrations and I know where you're coming from. I was there myself the first few weeks. And yes, I complained, too, as did many others and we all brought up the points you did. Which, by the way, are reasonable and valid points, but so are Becky's.

But... I got over it and said "Okay, it's fast you want? Fine, I'll get faster". I got setups from the inferno field (I used to have just 1 setup per car that I used on all the tracks), tweaked some, and went to practise a few tracks offline. SO, FE,... the tracks that are in Race1's rotation. And yes, after not too long I got a bit faster. Fast enough to score 1 point for 7th position. I felt I was getting more competitive, got more confident as a result, and as a result of that I got a little faster. And I'm still getting faster, albeit very slowly, but at least I'm improving. I haven't won a race yet, but I got one or two podium finishes (3rd place) and generally finish within the top 7 and thus within the points. I don't even worry about whether or not my laps are fast enough to get points; I know they are. I'm not putting down record times but hey, I'm not that ambitious. I'm scoring points and having some good races (mostly, not always) and I'll get to Silver eventually.

I even set a new track record today! Me! Who'd have thought! This calls for... bananas!

Quote from obsolum :

I even set a new track record today! Me! Who'd have thought! This calls for... bananas!

Nice one! Well done!

Quote from Christofire :

I think that it's very hard for higher-licensed racers to score points on lower-tier servers, to encourage them to race on the higher tiers.

I do hope this is the case. Imho, higher licenced racers shouldn't score any points when competing on lower servers. They should still have the freedom to drive on the servers, but surely in order to progress towards their next licence, they should be expected to compete at their level, rather than beat a field of newbies on the bronze/copper server? (the same will obviously apply once the SS2 server is open)

If the system has been changed since I last raced on CTRA, forgive me (haven't had time for LFS for a week or two). But I can see how so many copper/bronze drivers were getting so frustrated and annoyed in that, in order to progress, they were expected to compete with (and drive laptimes within a certain percentage of) racers with platinum or titanium licences who had light years of mileage & experience clocked up in LFS, but still racing on servers that were aimed at new drivers.

Quote from Becky Rose :

Never, because you need to be within 107% to qualify for race entry...

Yes, thankyou. I am more than aware of that. But you can't tell me that when the leader is coming up to lap the third place man that the FIA are going to turn around after the race and say sorry, all those outside the 107% margin set by the fastest lap will not score points . . . there would be outrage and rather than making teams raise their game they will leave the series in droves.

If you want your top flight to be all the same faces all of the time then then your system is perfect. But if you want a good front row, a good mid field and the obligitory backmarkers who are just in it for the ride then surely you need to relax slighty and let peeps like me strive for their moment of glory instead of shooting them down at the pass.

But for all my words I fully realise that in a few months time when someone raises these very same arguements I will be talking the same rhetoric as you good fellows and lasses in that it's purely a case of 'Get Faster!' because by then I will have 'got faster'.

Still, sixth place and no points. Hurumph.

(I do so like a good hurumph. I think everyone should hurumph every once in a while. Try not to follow through though. Painful)

As prelude to the launch of Single Seater 2 later today the system is now reducing points for those with a licence over what they need for a given car/server.

You can have 1 licence level higher than the needed licence and still get full points, after that your points rewards are gradually reduced each time you get a new licence and dont move up to a higher car class/server.

The current algorythm is not final and will almost certainly be made more severe, but I didnt want to stop it dishing out points completely with so little notice.