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Eyes + Over 30FPS = ?
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(44 posts, started )
Eyes + Over 30FPS = ?
I've heard alot of people saying that human eyes cant process over 30fps.

Is this true?

I also heard that a monitor cant process over 60fps.

Is this true?

Or is it FPS propaganda set out by those with crap PC's?

i think our eyes can only process upto 60 frames, because i once did a search for what FPS our world runs at :P
#3 - RiGun
Eyes don't see in FPS, but the motion effect can be archived with 24 frames per second, the human eye can detect a change in one fps of 500 in a second if 499 are black and one is white, but if the image is bright to bright with much less FPS you can see a fluid movement, it's all matter of brightness and contrast.
#4 - Jakg
Quote from The General Lee :I've heard alot of people saying that human eyes cant process over 30fps.

Is this true?

I also heard that a monitor cant process over 60fps.

Is this true?

Or is it FPS propaganda set out by those with crap PC's?


If your monitor works at 60 Hz it can only display 60 FPS, most TFT's work at 60 Hz, however i've seen CRT's topping 100 Hz.

The eye can see WAY more than 30 fps, i remember some research showing that in some circumstances the eye could see the difference up to 13 thosand FPS, but tbh once you go past 60 the difference becomes less noticable.

TV's run at 24 FPS (PAL) and 29.97 FPS (NTSC), but they are inter-laced which i think means that each frame is blurred to make it look better
So really, anything over your monitors Hz is pointless?
#6 - Jakg
Yup, just slap vSync on.
also the same reason why watching TV on NTSC TV's, looks weird compared to watching the same program on PAL TV's
What the hell, have everything I`v read been wrong then?
Can we see 13k FPS, or see the diference on up to 13k pictures each second?
I don`t belive that :/ I`M pretty sure that it`s under 100FPS when it comes to what the human eye can notice, or see, or what you would call it.
Quote from Jakg :TV's run at 24 FPS (PAL) and 29.97 FPS (NTSC), but they are inter-laced which i think means that each frame is blurred to make it look better

Interlaced means, that the images even and odd lines of the image are updated in a alternating manner. So the whole image is updated 24 or 29.97 times per second, but half of the image is updated twice as fast. So basically it doubles the framerate for the same bandwidth, but it does make the image worse.

A great image from Wikipedia:


On the subject: Human eye can process more FPS than 30. With more FPS the difference becomes less noticeable and you don't notice individual frames, but rather the smoothness on the image. And RiGun pointed out human eye can spot a different frame from a big FPS image too, if the difference is big enough that is.
You really shouldn't think about the eye in computer terms since it's quite different.
Quote from The General Lee :So really, anything over your monitors Hz is pointless?

no since your monitor can still display higher framerates through stitching 2 frames together (barely noticeable on a good monitor) additionally any kind of vsync requires buffers delaying the image you see to whats happening in game
Quote from Forbin :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker_fusion_threshold

I use a CRT and can't stand refresh rates below 80Hz (I run mine at 85Hz). I get a headache any time I use a public computer running a CRT at 60Hz.

I read that the headaches are due to the brain not liking the 60Hz refresh rate of CRTs alongside the 50Hz flickering of flourescent lighting.

Doesn't happen with TFTs though as they dont 'flicker'.
Quote from Shotglass :no since your monitor can still display higher framerates through stitching 2 frames together (barely noticeable on a good monitor) additionally any kind of vsync requires buffers delaying the image you see to whats happening in game

Indeed. Vsync drops frames that are sent before the monitor refresh signal is sent. I never play with Vsync on, tearing is the (small) sacrifice I pay for the fastest image possible.

Vsync shouldn't affect your framerates but as a keen CS:S player I noticed (to me) severe laggyness with vsync on - others have too.
Thats crap, on any Game, you can see the difference Between 30 and 60 fps... you can see smoothness (especially on FPS games) up to 125 fps, then no more, you can only feel it after that
This article is interesting
Quote from Bean0 :I read that the headaches are due to the brain not liking the 60Hz refresh rate of CRTs alongside the 50Hz flickering of flourescent lighting.

Doesn't happen with TFTs though as they dont 'flicker'.

Our AC runs at 60Hz in the US, so I don't think our fluorescent lights flicker at 50Hz.
Quote from BlueFlame :Thats crap, on any Game, you can see the difference Between 30 and 60 fps... you can see smoothness (especially on FPS games) up to 125 fps, then no more, you can only feel it after that

Most people say other wise.

I can't reallt notice a HUGE difference untill it goes below 30 or 25FPS.
Regardless of whether I'm playing LFS or a first person shooter, the game gets noticeably choppy for me if it gets below 60 fps. For ultimate smoothness, I need it around 85-100 fps.

I'm the kind of guy the CPU and video card companies love.
Quote from NitroNitrous :This article is interesting

That page is extremely good as well, as it explains something about interlacing not many video capturers know (that the fields shouldn't be blended).

And interlacing was the first video compression technique to be used.
Quote from Forbin :Regardless of whether I'm playing LFS or a first person shooter, the game gets noticeably choppy for me if it gets below 60 fps. For ultimate smoothness, I need it around 85-100 fps.

+1
it also has to do with your screensize. on a 15" screen objects "travel" less way between two points than on a 42". Thats why some HDTV standards use 50 instead of 25 FPS.

As said, games need a much higher framerate to look realistic, because of the lack of blur. Other synthetic animation like cartoons try to fake the blur. At http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/snapanimation you can see a tutorial how you can do it in Flash.
Quote from Forbin :Regardless of whether I'm playing LFS or a first person shooter, the game gets noticeably choppy for me if it gets below 60 fps. For ultimate smoothness, I need it around 85-100 fps.

+1
Quote from The General Lee :Most people say other wise.

I can't reallt notice a HUGE difference untill it goes below 30 or 25FPS.

So when your playing with 30 fps you don't know the difference between that and 60?

Obviously, its INDIVIDUAL frames the human eye cannot 'see', after about 10, you can notice the smoothness, and overall difference.
I never see any difference over 60FPS (and that's with a monitor at 85hz) I lock my FPS at 60 in every game that allows me to now.
#25 - Woz
You only see FPS above your monitor refresh as tearing in the image as it is then composed or more than one frame. You need vsync on to stop this, but in reality I would leave VSync off unless your FPS is double the refresh rate or you will lower your FPS.

With the current trend for LCD monitors anything above 60fps is pointless because they cant display it.

That said you can notice far higher fps and people with 120Hz CRTs and FPS to match will get silk like movement.

What you HAVE to avoid is big changes in FPS. So if your systems stable FPS is 40 yet can put out far higher you are better locking at 40-50 so you dont see huge changes in FPS. A drop from 60 down to 40 at point will show up and feel like a stutter due to the bigger distance you cover.

The other thing to take into account is the faster the car you are driving the faster the required FPS or the motion will feel less smooth, you will see the jumps in frame.
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Eyes + Over 30FPS = ?
(44 posts, started )
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