The full decision of the World Motor Sport Council hearing of September 13th is available here as PDF.

Excerpt (for the lazy/buzy ones):

Quote :

8.8 In light of the evidence now before it, the WMSC does not accept that the only actions of McLaren deserving censure were those of Coughlan. While this situation might have originated with the actions of a single rogue McLaren employee acting on his own and without McLaren’s knowledge or consent, evidence is now available which, when taken in its full context, makes clear that:

- Coughlan had more information than previously appreciated and was receiving information in a systematic manner over a period of months;
- the information has been disseminated, at least to some degree (e.g. to Mr. de la Rosa and Mr. Alonso), within the McLaren team;
- the information being disseminated within the McLaren team included not only highly sensitive technical information but also secret information regarding Ferrari’s sporting strategy;
- Mr de la Rosa, in the performance of his functions at McLaren, requested and received secret Ferrari information from a source which he knew to be illegitimate and expressly stated that the purpose of his request was to run tests in the simulator;
- the secret information in question was shared with Mr. Alonso;
- there was a clear intention on the part of a number of McLaren personnel to use some of the Ferrari confidential information in its own testing. If this was not in fact carried into effect it was only because there were technical reasons not to do so;
- Coughlan’s role within McLaren (as now understood by the WMSC) put him in a position in which his knowledge of the secret Ferrari information would have influenced him in the performance of his duties.

So, with only circumstantial evidence, the WMSC has severely punished McLaren. There was no evidence that the McLaren team were in receipt of anything confidential, but they have concluded that Coughlan and de la Rosa must have passed information to others in the team. This would not stand up in a court of law, and I very much hope that this farcical decision is challenged.

Read the whole report. There's lots of hard evidence. What I quoted is just the final summary.

I'm with bozo on this one.
I could walk up and ask for the information on a car. If they choose to give me that information, surely it's them who is in the wrong.

It's like being charged for theft when the owner hands you the item.

Quote from Dajmin :

It's like being charged for theft when the owner hands you the item.

No, it's more like fencing, when you benefit from something you know you shouldn't have.

Hmm. I'd have to agree they deserve a rap on the knuckles for that. Poor management not stamping it out early, they probably would've been OK if they'd shopped Coughlan to the FIA straight away.

Unbelievable crap just the drivers still away after this while they were clearly involved in it.

Stephney even ratted about Ferrari's pit strategy in Australian GP (section 3.22). McLaren never used that information? Not your casual sports betting tip.

There are spies up and down the pit lane figuring out what setups people are on. what most people fail to realise is that this sort of thing happens all the time, and most of time it's regarded as 'just 'motorsport''. McLaren have certainly cocked up though.

Actually what is quite revealing is the comfort that DLR, and ALonso received that information (from what I have read from the quotes). That to me is a suggestion that Fernando is very much at home with receiving information like this. In fact I would be very surprised if there is not a driver on the grid that has received 'confidential' information about another teams car at some point during their whole career.

Quote from FL!P :

Read the whole report. There's lots of hard evidence. What I quoted is just the final summary.

I did read the whole report before posting ... and kept coming across statements where the WMSC were given evidence that Coughlan or de la Rosa had information, and then surmised that they 'must have' informed the team, and the team 'must have' made the decisions about what they did with the info. But you could equally look at it another way. I'm a test driver and I need to perform for my team to stay in contract. If I can acquire info and use it, and it makes me look good, why should I tell the team - especially if the info was gained in a rather illicit fashion.

I'm not saying that I believe the team is completely innocent, but I would say the evidence does not prove guilt, and the punishment does not fit the crime.

I would like to see the evidence presented to an impartial judge/jury. My worry is that with Mr Ecclestone now making noises that the punishment could have been a lot worse, McLaren may decide to make the payment and live another day. That's not justice, and even by F1 standards, it does smell somewhat!

Quote from bozo :

I did read the whole report before posting ... and kept coming across statements where the WMSC were given evidence that Coughlan or de la Rosa had information, and then surmised that they 'must have' informed the team

Alonso was for sure informed, since the actual content of the emails tells so. The chief designer, a test driver and a driver... Isn't that enough to consider a team involved, or not?

Does Dennis not knowing excuse McLaren in its entirety, or not?

Quote from bozo :

I did read the whole report before posting ... and kept coming across statements where the WMSC were given evidence that Coughlan or de la Rosa had information, and then surmised that they 'must have' informed the team, and the team 'must have' made the decisions about what they did with the info. But you could equally look at it another way. I'm a test driver and I need to perform for my team to stay in contract. If I can acquire info and use it, and it makes me look good, why should I tell the team - especially if the info was gained in a rather illicit fashion.

Sorry I misunderstood your first post, and thanks for the clarification.

For what we know, the FIA got the evidence from the drivers because they had their Super Licenses to use as leverage. At this point it's not a proof that no one else at McLaren had got or used Ferrari's data.

I've read they'll release more info in about a week (after blanking out whatever data Ferrari wants to keep secret). Maybe some of it will bring more light on this.

Anyone know what the story is with Renault yet?

What'd like to know is where the 100 000 000 $ are supposed to come from? Autosport has some rough numbers:

Yearly budget: 400 m
Prize money for winning WCC: 70 m
Profit per year: 5 m
Santander sponsorship: 18 m
Vodafone sponsorship: ??? (anyone here know?)
Daimler AG: the rest

So even if the first instinct is that money doesn't matter to F1 teams, 100 m is a huge amount!

Norbert certainly won't be able to go to his bosses and say "Hey, I need another 100m because one of our partners got a big fine from a sports organizer because of a PDF and some SMS".

So the money will have to come from the Mclaren company, who make 5m per year.

I reckon they're going to end up paying a lot less, similarly to the organizers of the Turkey GP, who didn't have to pay their fine after showing the FIA that they would be bankrupt if they did.

The unrealistic sum of money just strengthens my opinion that the whole spy drama, with public emails and all, was just a stunt to make F1 more interesting to mainstream media when in truth F1 is a lot less entertaining than GP2.

Quote from FL!P :

Sorry I misunderstood your first post, and thanks for the clarification.

No worries. I wrote quickly and perhaps without making myself clear.

Quote from FL!P :

At this point it's not a proof that no one else at McLaren had got or used Ferrari's data.

Yes, I agree. There's no proof of the information going any further into the McLaren organisation.

Quote from FL!P :

I've read they'll release more info in about a week (after blanking out whatever data Ferrari wants to keep secret). Maybe some of it will bring more light on this.

But surely the verdict today should have clearly shown what info was presented that would result in such a verdict being given. To make suggestions, for instance, that the test driver could not have decided by himself not to try a particular weight distribution because it was so different from what McLaren had been using, and therefore must have consulted the team, and use it to back such a verdict, is ludicrous.

Anyhow, I hope that McLaren win the remaining races, and the commentators highlight the ridiculous nature of this verdict. I'm sure Martin Brundle on ITV in the UK will not hold back.

Quote from bozo :

Yes, I agree. There's no proof of the information going any further into the McLaren organisation.

I meant the opposite.

I'm with J.B. here... A 100 million dollar?! They could have bought the complete Spyker F1 team for that... how on earth can they ever afford that!?

Also leaving the drivers unpunished seems to strengthen J.B.'s theory for a publicity stunt... after all this is the only way to keep the championship interesting.
I find it unbelievable that the drivers - who got all those championship points with an illegal (or a with-illegally-fetched-knowledge-constructed) car - are left unpunished!

You can say they didn't have anything to do with it, but at least Alonso knew. If he was to stay unblamed, he should have said "I'm not racing this car". And don't get me wrong; I'm not saying that's the obvious thing to do, I'm only saying that that would have been the only way for him to keep a clean sheet in this affaire... in my opinion he is to blame as much as the team is and the FIA is being ridiculous!

Quote from FL!P :

I meant the opposite.

It's the same both ways. There's just no evidence either way.

Quote from traxxion :

Also leaving the drivers unpunished seems to strengthen J.B.'s theory for a publicity stunt... after all this is the only way to keep the championship interesting.

I find the championship very interesting in this season.

The two first drivers are separated by only 3 points.

We didnt have that very often in the last years this far into the season.


Oh, and I agree with the opinion that 100 Million is far too much.

Quote from zeugnimod :

I find the championship very interesting in this season.

The two first drivers are separated by only 3 points.

We didnt have that very often in the last years this far into the season.

I mean "to keep it interesting after this affaire"... It wouldnt have been interesting anymore if they'd have done the obvious: take the drivers' points too.

I've been enjoying this season as much as anyone here

Quote from zeugnimod :

Oh, and I agree with the opinion that 100 Million is far too much.

McFerrari is not gonna pay 100 millions. By some retarted FIA logic, the manufacturer WC title prize money (70 millions) is cut out from the total fine. So the actual fine will be only 30 millions. I just don't get this part. How is McLaren going to win the manufacturer WC title and the prize money when it now has 0 points?!


.

Quote from bozo :

It's the same both ways. There's just no evidence either way.

Evidence? What kind of evidence? Emails? Short messages from Stepney to Coughlan?

De la Rosa writes to Alonso on 25th March:

"It comes from Nigel Stepney, their former chief mechanic - I don't know what post he holds now.
"He's the same person who told us in Australia that Kimi (Raikkonen) was stopping in lap 18. He's very friendly with Mike Coughlan, our chief designer and he told him that."

This mail (along with tons of other communications) shows total awareness of the fact that Ferrari's data was used inside the team to gain an advantage. I really couldn't see harder evidence than that. Coughlan and Stepney lawyers have a huge problem to solve because all of this evidence would stand perfectly in a trial.

Super Aguri > McLaren Points Wise

Well, as i see it, they all cheated, exept Hamilton (it seems, as alonso, and de la Rosa were all aware of it, and there is no mention of hamilton)


Anyway, its abit of a farce, In my opinion, it has handed Ferarri the Championship, for BMW to win, they pretty much have to get 1-2 finishes, with ferrari DNF - ing.

The (non) Fine seems to work out at the 70,000,000$ for winning the WCS and a total of 30,000,000$ as the "actual" fine. Makes more sense to me than 100,000,000$

Quote from spiderbait90 :

Super Aguri > McLaren Points Wise
... they all cheated, exept Hamilton...

that is funny, Hamilton has no ears or eyes...
He decide to be quiet when asked for evidences. In fact the FIA counsel to punish him along with McLaren.

"8.14 Having indicated to McLaren that a penalty was likely to be imposed, the WMSC heard submissions regarding the appropriateness of penalties from McLaren and from counsel for Mr. Hamilton. The WMSC has reached its decision having taken due account of those submissions"

Quote from Albieg :

Evidence? What kind of evidence? Emails? Short messages from Stepney to Coughlan?

De la Rosa writes to Alonso on 25th March:

"It comes from Nigel Stepney, their former chief mechanic - I don't know what post he holds now.
"He's the same person who told us in Australia that Kimi (Raikkonen) was stopping in lap 18. He's very friendly with Mike Coughlan, our chief designer and he told him that."

This mail (along with tons of other communications) shows total awareness of the fact that Ferrari's data was used inside the team to gain an advantage. I really couldn't see harder evidence than that. Coughlan and Stepney lawyers have a huge problem to solve because all of this evidence would stand perfectly in a trial.

During the original trial it was accepted that Coughlan had privileged information. This second trial was about whether that information had been used by McLaren. The drivers were given immunity if they provided whatever evidence they possessed. The emails and SMS were only between the original parties and the drivers, not with other team members. I stand by my comments, from the 'evidence' that has been published, there is nothing that directly implicates the wider McLaren team.

If the drivers knew, and wanted to try it on either the cars or the simulator, I'd bet my Reynard that other members of the McLaren, other than Coughlan, PDLR and Alonso, knew about the data. Who programs it into the simulator or puts it on the car (in this case perhaps just the tyre stuff and the weight distribution, but perhaps a whole lot more, perhaps everything).

You see, after that it becomes speculation. But what IS certain is that more than Stepney and Coughlan knew about the dossier and it's contents, and it had filtered by some route to the drivers. That is sufficient evidence for the prosecution to hold, and the punishment to be given. You cannot say that given the amount of people who knew about Ferrari's data that McLaren should be found not-guilty of either experimenting with, considering or using the Ferrari data.