Quote from Jakg :

It has 8 cores so it MUST be faster.

:doh:

Then work out how much MHz it is per core (dont forget it only use's 7 in game) and then prepare to laugh.

MHz is just a rubbish comparison in the same way cores are.

Quote from (-Mark-) :

whoops voted ps3 :S its meant to be Pc

Fixed

Quote from atlantian :

^why would i? i am going to see what else i can troll out of you guys

We remove self-confessed trolls forcibly from this forum, never to return. Consider yourself on notice.

Ty sam ^^

I never really get why a sim would come out for the ps3, its not the same really, like FPS games, FPS games are meant for mouse and keyboard, not controllers!

It is easy, PC has some sims, PS3 none

(Gran Turismo is fine, but is not a sim, don´t make me laguh )

Quote from atlantian :

ps3 has and 8 core processor and polyphony made gt5 tailored to use all of that power to it's advantage.

Protip; Before going into an argument about the terrificness of a processor, try to educate yourself on the matter before spouting irrelevant specifics you've picked up somewhere. I'm so god damned sick and tired of people filled to the brim with peripheral knowledge running around teh interwebz spouting this nonsense. It's exactly like the old Sega versus Nintendo arguments we had in gaming magazines 10-15 years ago. ("Sega is waaay better than Nintendo because Sonic is waaay faster than Super Mario Bros"). It's getting old.

The fact of the matter is that, contrary to popular belief, the Cell is NOT a million times more powerful than a 3GHz Core 2 Quad. The fact that it has 8 cores and runs at 3,2GHz is completely irrelevant when comparing it to a desktop x86 processor. The Cell is so completely different architecturally that these metrics taken on their own mean diddly squat. Only the PPE in the Cell could be reasonably compared to a normal processor, and if you did compare it you'd see it performs about equal to a 1,5GHz PowerPC G5. That's slow! Horribly slow! You'd have 3 times that perfomance from one out of the four cores in a modern Core 2 Quad. We're talking about a simplistic dual-issue, in-order core here! The fact that it runs at 3,2GHz is irrelevant.

But what about the 8 (7 in the PS3) SPEs? Well, they're actually a lot closer to DSPs than actual general purpose cores. For starters they can only work against their own pool of 256KB memory. They set up a DMA transfer from main memory to their local store, do the required processing, and then put it all back with another DMA transfer. This is a huge deal, and a big difference from how other multi-core architectures work. In fact, this design choice makes the SPEs completely unusable out of the box for software written for normal multi-core processors. To take advantage of the SPEs, you have to rewrite significant portions of your software specifically for the Cell. A simple recompile will not cut it. Not many game developers are willing to do that, especially considering the limited market share the PS3 has. Polyphony may do this, but I don't believe for a second that they can keep all those cores fed with useful things to do during normal gameplay. A game is more than pure physics number crunching.

Anything you may have read about the Cell coming from Sony or their affiliates is pure theoretical bullshit. I'll say it again; Peak FLOPS, GHz and core count are irrelevant metrics when comparing performance with existing desktop processors.

Quote from atlantian :

ps3 has and 8 core processor and polyphony made gt5 tailored to use all of that power to it's advantage.

pc's can be upgraded till kingdom come, but have low standards.
but PS3's are very powerful at stock, but can't be modded

that means, if LFS made Godly graphics and features, it would loose many followers simply because of the inability to play the game

I have to say that I think you are mixing up eye candy and simulation, they are not the same. There has not been and there will not be a GT? game that is a simulation. As others have pointed out, they would not make any money.

A real simulation requires too much dedication to be good at. This is just not what GT? players are after. The GT? series has always been the Pokemon of racing games (Gota get em all). The physics are made that little Timmy can play a game and not have to understand weight transfer, rev limits etc. Overtaking by bouncing off the barriers and playing bumper cars has always been a valid tactic in GT?. If they implemented damage it would just be too hard for the average Burnout fan.

All the PS3 games will be the same for this reason. The dev costs are just too high and the REAL simulation market is just too small to make it worth while. The PS3 market is small enough as it is, PS3 being the 3rd place console at present in the "next gen" war.

BTW: The cell is NOT an 8 core CPU. It is a SINGLE core CPU and 7 DSP units that have a very asymetrical data transfer capability. For SOME calculations it will be better than normal coding BUT the setup and mindset change means that developers that have a chance of using the chip well are few and far between.

Hope that helps

If you are talking about raw power, a multithread simulation running on Cell can OWN a PC easily.

If you talk about games... first you need a sim for PS3.

from what i heard from friends it seems like the gt will NOT be the same as before, it's said to be a huge leap from GT4.

and also, i don't think that controllers are a valid argument against a console, since ultimately you are going to get a wheel for the driving games.

well, i have yet to test out prologue since my friend says he got hold of it on ps network(he has a japanese account)

well, @sam:An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response.

I define it as posting a controversial topic, and i am not just bored, i am actually curious as to what game has the best physics, and i just wanted to ask about gt. So it has been confirmed that LFS has the BEST traction modeling according to what i read on the boards, right?

I was planning on doing an experiment with a bunch of games on my next long weekend.
the list consists of:
-LFS
-RBR
-NC2003
-Rfactor
-GPL
-GTL
-GT5 prologue

I remember reading somewhere a long time ago that the reason Gran Tourismo didn't have damage was part of a licensing agreement from the auto makers. Something to do with it possibly hurting sales of the real cars.

This Cell technology in the PS3... Will it be standardized and used in PCs, or is it going to be like what the original laser disc was to video recording?

Quote from Racer Y :

This Cell technology in the PS3... Will it be standardized and used in PCs, or is it going to be like what the original laser disc was to video recording?

kinda late here so ill keep it short

1) the general purpose core of cell has been used for years in pcs made by apple (well at least something very similar)
2) amd bought ati partly to have access to a fully developed parallel core which they can fit into future multicore cpus so you can expect to see something similar available for pcs sometime round 2010

Quote from Racer Y :

This Cell technology in the PS3... Will it be standardized and used in PCs, or is it going to be like what the original laser disc was to video recording?

The trouble the cell has at the moment is that people have not really got their heads around what the DSP like side of the cell (7 or the cores) can and can't do. Most coding knowledge is sat around more traditional architecture, thats whats been used since the early days.

This added to the fact that developing for multiple cores is hard. You can already get systems with twin "quad core" chips but TBH, there is not really that much software to use it in the home setting.

The tech will appear in the GFX domain first, as that has most use for it.

Even the games companies tend to dev for PC/XBox first as they are similar technology then port to PS3. This means that even if the cell is more powerful, getting the most of it tends to be more after though or last on the list. As long as it runs as well as the X360 they appear happy. In some cases the results have been worse, The Orange Box springs to mind.

That said, now Sony appear to have won the BR/HD-DVD fight it might mean more people start to target the PS3. This will build up the coding knowledge base.

GT4 was a "gigantic leap" over GT3 according to Sony. The same will happen for GT5. At the end of the day, an ultra realistic game will NOT sell as well as a semi-sim.

yeah atlantian go play your arcade GT5, which I admit looks nice, but it's shame you call it sim or something like that.
People need to understand which games are sim's and which are NOT.

Quote from atlantian :

fwell, @sam:An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response.

You do know internet trolls are usually referred as a bad thing? If you quote from wikipedia you should have read on before stating you're a troll. Usually people don't like to have trolls on their forums, because they aren't posting useful content.

(24.37 posts per day)!!! Bloody hell, that makes Jakg and I look positively inactive!

Quote from tristancliffe :

24.37 posts per day

..and all of them are shite...

haha moose :P

Can we vote ban please

Quote from Racer Y :

I remember reading somewhere a long time ago that the reason Gran Tourismo didn't have damage was part of a licensing agreement from the auto makers. Something to do with it possibly hurting sales of the real cars.

Developers usually say licensers don't like to see their cars busted in games, I dont know if it's a common urban legend, or just a matter of license cost. "Damage = Normal License + X"

Quote from Racer Y :

This Cell technology in the PS3... Will it be standardized and used in PCs, or is it going to be like what the original laser disc was to video recording?

We are at the gates of multithread developing, it's not new, but it's not mainstream, good MT tools are very specific and MT developing (debugging in fact) can be a terrible headache, if the multiple cores approach keeps gaining momentum, and suitable general purpose tools are developed, we'll see amazing things, a qualitative (more than the MZh quantitative) leap in software.

Quote from (-Mark-) :

Can we vote ban please

+1

Quote from Eldanor :

...we'll see amazing things, a qualitative (more than the MZh quantitative) leap in software.

You mean directly opposed to the quantitative (more cores, rather than higher quality cores that can sustain higher frequencies) leap in hardware?

PS: That poll seems to come in really close. I don't think we'll see a clear winner on this one...

Quote from Racer Y :

I remember reading somewhere a long time ago that the reason Gran Tourismo didn't have damage was part of a licensing agreement from the auto makers. Something to do with it possibly hurting sales of the real cars.

It has possibly also something to do with the fact that Kazunori likes to dig out stupid excuses out from his arse.

I think you would get a more balanced poll if you asked if Elvis was infact still alive, or if ghosts existed. PC's have better sims, mainly because the PS3 doesn't have any sims, Gran Turismo is a watered down arcade racer for the masses...and thats the only one that even comes close!

Oh and that no damage excuse is bullshit, look at Forza 2, I binned a Ferrari Enzo at 200mph into a wall and pretty much everything fell off the car and the engine started smoking. I didn't get a phone call from Ferrari saying 'we are going to sue you for that crash, you lose us some sales'.

Quote from AndroidXP :

You mean directly opposed to the quantitative (more cores, rather than higher quality cores that can sustain higher frequencies) leap in hardware?

PS: That poll seems to come in really close. I don't think we'll see a clear winner on this one...

What i mean is the MHz race was just about gaining speed (in cycles/sec), just adding more MHz.

The core approach is more like multiplying rather than adding. You grow faster multiplying than adding.

If you can divide a task, you can muti-thread it, and there comes the hard part