I think they've started to believe their own publicity and that is fatal.
You can see that Dave really does believe what he is saying at 9.45 in the below link
http://youtu.be/5gFb1Nyg5ZA
I think they've started to believe their own publicity and that is fatal.
You can see that Dave really does believe what he is saying at 9.45 in the below link
http://youtu.be/5gFb1Nyg5ZA
That's just a PR video. He's not going to act like it is crap.
However him taking 2 weeks off after the "2.0" release was funny IMO. They say some ridiculous things though, I'll give you that.
I think it is perfectly understandable to take a week or two off sometimes. You guys in america don't have a lot of vacation days anyways compared to the rest of the world 
E: I'm actually quite worried with something he said in the vid. He said that stewart drove some laps and was faster than their own test drivers. How slow the iracing beta testers are when someone can come sit in a sim and do faster laps immediatelly? I hope that was just marketing talk there instead of something else.
E: I'm actually quite worried with something he said in the vid. He said that stewart drove some laps and was faster than their own test drivers. How slow the iracing beta testers are when someone can come sit in a sim and do faster laps immediatelly? I hope that was just marketing talk there instead of something else.
Dave's a developer though, not an actor. I really do think they have started to believe their own publicity. Just my thoughts, I am aware I could be wrong.
It does make you think doesn't it, when they say that real world drivers normally have a problem with "getting the feel" of sims straight away. If it was marketing talk who was it pointed at? The sim crowd are going to say "are your testers not up to it? If a real world driver with no sim experience beats your testers so easily" or the GT/NFS crowd "Wow a real world driver showed those sim testers how real it really is" Or is the iRacing PR department not really up to the job?
All the more reason to stop taking vacations, he lives in US, no vacations allowed.
It's well-known that their testers actually suck major balls. Since the DWC guys are just a marketting tool, they don't allow them to test. I don't know who actually get to do the testing, but I do know that most, if not all, are average or below average in driving standards.
Of course they have. Every statement they make is in PR format. Notice how the smaller guys (Eric and Shannon, or even Steve) are a bit quiet on the forums when it comes to some things, and Tony is the guy doing all the big "PR" posts.
All I gotta say is that I called this way in advance (early/mid 2009 I'd say), so I win.
Site down for Maintenance?
Ford GT update, massive digging just to be able to find this crap.
First started with this thread, where racers started to question the tires on the Ford GT.
Then, someone emailed Robertso ... s the real life Ford GT).
The email sent:
The reply:
So they did it so they can get the aero modeling from iR? Does that mean iR has to pay them or what? Anyways, to continue...
Staff member Ian Berwick, don't know him? Many don't, he's a quiet one. Well he just posted some things about the Ford GT that can be found here.
Here is what he said:
He also mentions Dave's upcoming post:
Funny how that is the first time that the Ford GT having unrealistic tire pressures on purpose, and the staff member said it thinking it had been told to the community before. Rather humerous.
lol his response to my post saying that:
First started with this thread, where racers started to question the tires on the Ford GT.
Then, someone emailed Robertso ... s the real life Ford GT).
The email sent:
The reply:
So they did it so they can get the aero modeling from iR? Does that mean iR has to pay them or what? Anyways, to continue...
Staff member Ian Berwick, don't know him? Many don't, he's a quiet one. Well he just posted some things about the Ford GT that can be found here.
Here is what he said:
He also mentions Dave's upcoming post:
Funny how that is the first time that the Ford GT having unrealistic tire pressures on purpose, and the staff member said it thinking it had been told to the community before. Rather humerous.
lol his response to my post saying that:
Iracing is not a company that can do cfd analysis. What they can provide is a millimeter accurate 3d-model of the actual car that the team can give to some company (along with other telemetry data they have for example) that does that sort of thing.
Iracing most definitely is not capable to produce any "aero modelling". Iracing relies just as much as some racing teams to getting that data from somewhere else.
It is just a deal where both have something the other may find useful. Iracing gets the car, robertson racing gets a laser scan of their car. Among other things I'd assume.
Finally a word on tyre pressures, it fits what we all assumed but why couldn’t they have admitted this in the release notes or the first few days?
Probably because we would speculate that other factors in the tyre model were severely fudged as well!
Well there strategy back fired as there has been intense analysis by the community and they have concluded that themselves anyway
Probably because we would speculate that other factors in the tyre model were severely fudged as well!
Well there strategy back fired as there has been intense analysis by the community and they have concluded that themselves anyway
Best part is when the staff member acted like they had already mentioned it to the community.
When I see him say "Don't contact the team anymore..." I look at it as "Don't contact the company, you might find we have many things fudged".
Heh, that is interesting but I bet Ian's purpose in saying that is more along the lines of "don't feck up our relationship with the team by pissing them off via flooding them with questions they don't care about"
I'll be sure to email the team now to see if they run a minimum of 35psi or not, because the new revolutionary sim has that.
I sense some frustration. Why bother?
As bad as it may seem if it wasn't for iRacing I'd very likely have dismantled my racing rig by now as it would have been a waste of space for the last two years
It is mainly frustrating because they have the resources to create something amazing, but don't strive to do so. I personally love racing, and after not being able to continue real life racing due to funding, sim racing was my only choice. It's frustrating to sink money into a sim with epic content, but the physics of a highly polished rfactor mod. Meh, I'm on my phone in class so i cant go on a proper rant, this should suffice for now.
What happened to you Phil? You used to be so good at your in class rants
Class was ending. Didn't want to type a long rant while walking across campus.
I really don't understand, first when iR opened to public EVERYONE who played it was like 'Best sim evahh!! oh yeahh' and now like 90% of this forum bitches about the game saying it's not the best and it sucks and shit...
I bought it because you guys said it was far better than any sim out there, even better than nkp, and it seems that right now it isn't?
I bought it because you guys said it was far better than any sim out there, even better than nkp, and it seems that right now it isn't?
Too much fudge for my liking.
I've had alot of hate toward them for over the past year now. Many have heard me go on long rants about them. Their promises in beta still haven't fell through. It just gets hold how they try to promise all these different things, and every single bit of it falls through. I don't mind a sim like LFS that already has a fantastic base and then takes the time to redo most of it's model to produce something even better. However iRacing hasn't even scratched the surface of a proper physics/tire model IMO. If it wasn't for the tracks, I'd call it something like rFactor. This 2.0 release marketing crap is just like a shot in the dark for them to try and redeem themselves. However they redeem themselves by coming out with something we would see from a console series.
If it wasn't for the content, and by that I mean the detail of it, then I don't see why many would stick there.
Well now you're getting carried away again Phil...
iRacing is still a better sim but has core faults that frustrate me given the resources they have, and have made use of. I'm still really waiting to see how their NTM works on road cars because that will tell a lot more than putting it on much higher performance cars - man what a mistake. As has been said, the Skippy is very good now and they should've worked their way up the scale instead of putting the NTM on demanding cars with known deficiencies that could cloud the issue.
Listen, I ran LFS last night for an hour because it's still fun - yet I was taken aback by this slowly oscillating "bouncing" effect that the cars have when subjected to sustained lateral load. What the hell is that? if iRacing did that I'd be even more pissed than I am at them for making great claims that didn't come to pass for the most part in their purported miracle build. That's pretty distracting issue now that I've been running iRacing which doesn't do that!
By and large iRacing still drives more like a car than LFS does, though often feels less natural - if that makes sense. I first thought that statement was paradoxical but it's not. iRacing can feel fudged where LFS can feel just plain goofy. LFS still has a better approach and a more consistent physical feel to it, but it's just too far off to be believable right now, even though that implicit coherency lends itself to simpler immersion. iRacing is rougher around the noticable edges but generally finds itself in a more believable input reaction - kind of like the "kid rails at a bowling alley - the ball goes where it should even if it's awkward".
Things are at a bit of a stalemate but even though I feel a little betrayed by Kaemmer's nomenclature and bravado, I still think they do have the ability to pull this off. I forget who said that they're in essence not using their dough properly (probably Phil) but the song isn't over yet. And if one company has the NEED to do this right it's them.
They really should buy Scawen out for some insane cash that sets him for life and use his talent. They won't out of pride (there's your Americanism Phil) but that really would be the best for the product and the market. Give the guy a few mil, move him to nice house all expenses paid and profit from one of the best minds ever to grace sim-racing - and I think he tops Dave considering what he's done on his own.
iRacing is still a better sim but has core faults that frustrate me given the resources they have, and have made use of. I'm still really waiting to see how their NTM works on road cars because that will tell a lot more than putting it on much higher performance cars - man what a mistake. As has been said, the Skippy is very good now and they should've worked their way up the scale instead of putting the NTM on demanding cars with known deficiencies that could cloud the issue.
Listen, I ran LFS last night for an hour because it's still fun - yet I was taken aback by this slowly oscillating "bouncing" effect that the cars have when subjected to sustained lateral load. What the hell is that? if iRacing did that I'd be even more pissed than I am at them for making great claims that didn't come to pass for the most part in their purported miracle build. That's pretty distracting issue now that I've been running iRacing which doesn't do that!
By and large iRacing still drives more like a car than LFS does, though often feels less natural - if that makes sense. I first thought that statement was paradoxical but it's not. iRacing can feel fudged where LFS can feel just plain goofy. LFS still has a better approach and a more consistent physical feel to it, but it's just too far off to be believable right now, even though that implicit coherency lends itself to simpler immersion. iRacing is rougher around the noticable edges but generally finds itself in a more believable input reaction - kind of like the "kid rails at a bowling alley - the ball goes where it should even if it's awkward".
Things are at a bit of a stalemate but even though I feel a little betrayed by Kaemmer's nomenclature and bravado, I still think they do have the ability to pull this off. I forget who said that they're in essence not using their dough properly (probably Phil) but the song isn't over yet. And if one company has the NEED to do this right it's them.
They really should buy Scawen out for some insane cash that sets him for life and use his talent. They won't out of pride (there's your Americanism Phil) but that really would be the best for the product and the market. Give the guy a few mil, move him to nice house all expenses paid and profit from one of the best minds ever to grace sim-racing - and I think he tops Dave considering what he's done on his own.
When you drive the fast cars to the absolute limit, or even just within 90%, you begin to see the amount of fudge that goes into that sim.
You are correct that I was the one with the spending debate, and also Americanism, so true.
But back to serious mode before bed. Lets just take the past 2 days into retrospect here. If you look back in this thread about 10-15 posts ago, I put quotes/links to where someone contacted Robertson Racing about the Ford GT. Now notice how they had not got the laser scanned car in order to get more aero data. Yet, iRacing is now getting more data to re-analyze and be able to "improve" the Ford GT. Of course this goes by adding a straight on the money 10%. Not 5.2, 6.8, 8.134235, no no no, lets go with a flat 10%.
Does this fix the problem with the rear of the car? Or does it just make it where the front of the car now can't get above the ground either?
Sure LFS might not have the best road cars, and that's where iRacing shines a bit. But even the other spreadsheet sim (rF) had a great Skoda mod, which was low powered road/race cars.
The live tire models seem to have a problem with low speed grip, which can be seen in LFS. Road cars in LFS have low grip which result in low speed, and you mix that together and you have some "meh". But IMO, TBO racing is some of the best racing out of any sim.
Looking at LFS' slicked tire cars (besides the MRT), they seem to handle much more proper compared to the ones in iRacing. A real life racer of a C6R was in the forum saying how a C6R compares to iRacing's IndyCar. It has that much grip, yet the one in iRacing is a drift toy.
iRacing just goes by that motto "You might be able to talk the talk, but you can't walk the walk".
BTW if you are oscillating in LFS, you are probably just moving your wheel. I get that in my car though when going over hills, is that what you mean?
See, that is the statement right there that gets me irritated. How can it be the better sim if it has core faults? A sim is about physics of the cars so we can simulate real life racing. If the core has faults, than the physics have faults, therefore it is not a proper sim. "But it simulates real life racing like GrandAm, NASCAR, F1, etc". Well duh mother f****r so does NFS, GT5, and Forza, but that doesn't mean they are simulators.
I see it as selling a car that has engine problems. It sure shouldn't sell for retail price, or more than its competitors. But I guess the wheels, leather seats, facebook integration into the radio display, and many other useless functional features are more important.
lol I'm going to bed, that rant sucked. Sorry for those that read it.
You are correct that I was the one with the spending debate, and also Americanism, so true.
But back to serious mode before bed. Lets just take the past 2 days into retrospect here. If you look back in this thread about 10-15 posts ago, I put quotes/links to where someone contacted Robertson Racing about the Ford GT. Now notice how they had not got the laser scanned car in order to get more aero data. Yet, iRacing is now getting more data to re-analyze and be able to "improve" the Ford GT. Of course this goes by adding a straight on the money 10%. Not 5.2, 6.8, 8.134235, no no no, lets go with a flat 10%.
Does this fix the problem with the rear of the car? Or does it just make it where the front of the car now can't get above the ground either?
Sure LFS might not have the best road cars, and that's where iRacing shines a bit. But even the other spreadsheet sim (rF) had a great Skoda mod, which was low powered road/race cars.
The live tire models seem to have a problem with low speed grip, which can be seen in LFS. Road cars in LFS have low grip which result in low speed, and you mix that together and you have some "meh". But IMO, TBO racing is some of the best racing out of any sim.
Looking at LFS' slicked tire cars (besides the MRT), they seem to handle much more proper compared to the ones in iRacing. A real life racer of a C6R was in the forum saying how a C6R compares to iRacing's IndyCar. It has that much grip, yet the one in iRacing is a drift toy.
iRacing just goes by that motto "You might be able to talk the talk, but you can't walk the walk".
BTW if you are oscillating in LFS, you are probably just moving your wheel. I get that in my car though when going over hills, is that what you mean?
See, that is the statement right there that gets me irritated. How can it be the better sim if it has core faults? A sim is about physics of the cars so we can simulate real life racing. If the core has faults, than the physics have faults, therefore it is not a proper sim. "But it simulates real life racing like GrandAm, NASCAR, F1, etc". Well duh mother f****r so does NFS, GT5, and Forza, but that doesn't mean they are simulators.
I see it as selling a car that has engine problems. It sure shouldn't sell for retail price, or more than its competitors. But I guess the wheels, leather seats, facebook integration into the radio display, and many other useless functional features are more important.
lol I'm going to bed, that rant sucked. Sorry for those that read it.
Rant wasn't bad.
What I was talking about when I said that iRacing is a better sim despite core flaws is really due to the fact that it just seems that that is literally the case. The end result is more correct for the moment (settings and pressures notwithstanding I might add, that's more icing on the cake at this point for either sim) in iR than in LFS ONLY in terms of reaction.
LFS has core faults too, really really big ones some of them similar to iRacing ironically (at least with the NTM)
Like you I don't care about the series (unless everything else is perfect, then all of a sudden it becomes cool) I'm still talking about the basic driving experience, and both sims seem to be closing in on the prize but from opposite directions. My rants about iR lately are mainly due to the fact that my expectations were high given their obvious advantages as a company.
What I was talking about when I said that iRacing is a better sim despite core flaws is really due to the fact that it just seems that that is literally the case. The end result is more correct for the moment (settings and pressures notwithstanding I might add, that's more icing on the cake at this point for either sim) in iR than in LFS ONLY in terms of reaction.
LFS has core faults too, really really big ones some of them similar to iRacing ironically (at least with the NTM)
Like you I don't care about the series (unless everything else is perfect, then all of a sudden it becomes cool) I'm still talking about the basic driving experience, and both sims seem to be closing in on the prize but from opposite directions. My rants about iR lately are mainly due to the fact that my expectations were high given their obvious advantages as a company.
It makes a lot of sense. iRacing cars behave very accurately. The Skippy is downright spooky to drive because it is crazily realistic in it's behavior.
But putting a cardboard box on some casters and rolling down a hill in it would feel more like a car than iRacing.
iRacing cars just do a terrible job of communicating what the car is doing. The audio is fine. But the force feedback and visual feedback (head bob) is terrible. The head "physics" only communicates bumps, but it needs to communicate G forces as well. The force feedback just goes slack when the car starts to really work, and doesn't warn of impending slides at all. It's like there is no self aligning torque to transmit and all the force in the wheel is coming from the caster.
That combined with dodgy slide behavior makes it too unforgiving and a chore to drive. I haven't raced for two weeks - I just don't feel engaged by the sim any more.
LFS, Net Kar Pro, and surprisingly GT5 all give very convincing feeling from the cars and actually feel like driving, even if there are problems with all 3.
This thread is closed
iRacing
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